#meta 2019-02-08

2019-02-08 UTC
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[tantek] Wait I thought “lifestyle business” was a strongly positive thing, with maybe just a tinge of luxury/privilege in the “wouldn’t it be nice if we could all do that” way
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jacky yeah that's the vibe I got from it too
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[cleverdevil] Its definitely a pejorative in some business circles, especially for investors.
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[cleverdevil] If you're a part of a business where you are heavily incentivized by ownership, you don't want to be a part of a "lifestyle business" unless you're a beneficiary of extremely high salaries and great benefits, because it won't pay off from selling equity later.
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[cleverdevil] I'd say its a heavily nuanced term with a lot of baggage.
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jacky.wtf edited /2019/Austin/Project_Goals (+1) "removed myself from offline guestbook for austin - won't be attending physically" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] Cleverdevil but it was always used as a deragatory by investors as "less than"
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[jgmac1106] In my mind I remember Accenture was started by one guy who could realize he could charge folks to install printers
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[jgmac1106] I want to liberate lifestyle as a good and more sustainable small business option
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[cleverdevil] Don't get me wrong, I definitely think its a great way to go for a small business, even for a large one!
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[jgmac1106] Blitzscaling uses blitzkrieg as metaphor... Nazis make crappy metaphors
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[cleverdevil] It just requires an alignment between the ownership and the employees about expectations.
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[jgmac1106] Yes or small number of employees
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[cleverdevil] Even with investors, a business can be designed to throw off cash, rather than to focus on growth.
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[jgmac1106] I am just addicted to the hustle. Call it what you want but to me money out there if you want it might take some time but you can either spend a dollar or turn it to two... Like a said more addiction than lifestyle I guess
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[cleverdevil] Honestly, the most important part to me is that alignment.
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[cleverdevil] Everyone in a business, including any investors, needs to be in agreement as to what the business wants to accomplish financially.
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[jgmac1106] I call it philanthropic entrepreneurial activism
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[cleverdevil] Growth? Profit? Etc.
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[jgmac1106] I want to do good and mKe a good buck doing it
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[cleverdevil] (This is probably a #chat topic)
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[jgmac1106] Cleverdevil++
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Loqi Cleverdevil has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (94 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] This is all chat BTW and it ain't even Friday
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[jgmac1106] Jinx
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[cleverdevil] Heh
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Back to xAPI, idea of e just being CoP and inventing vocabularies sounds freeing but opposite of metadata's task. Reason I got attracted to microformats (after I knew about #IndieWeb) could not understand massive … https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/08/downes-benwerd-back-to-xapi-idea (twitter.com/_/status/1093682273956909062)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+181) "page logo of flowchart from Vint Cerf, WIRED article details" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Interesting choice of words "Community of Practice one would say #IndieWeb not spec and shouldn't label vocab but fits academic dfn of CoP. Been envisioning an mf2 driven teacher dashboard already, especially after teaching with @chrisaldrich… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/08/benwerd-interesting-choice-of-words-community-of (twitter.com/_/status/1093688553584947201)
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[tantek] Another great reason to go to IndieWebCamp Berlin - re:publica19 is May 6-8 right after! https://19.re-publica.com/en
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] the problem with delegating/distributing vocabulary creation to the edges like that is that not everyone is an informatician - and I'd posit that most such "communities of practice" have zero informaticians. Good vocabulary creation is a science unto itself. You don't delegate physics to everyone to do themselves for their community.
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[tantek] There is this broad misconception that anyone / everyone has skills to make good vocabularies.
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[tantek] If your goal is artistic/cultural expression, great, that distributes quite well. If your goal is *interoperability* and *standards* for sharing information back and forth, especially on a global scale, then you need skills for doing it well.
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[jgmac1106] yeah said the freedom made it almost useless..and I would argue everyone published SCORM but it wasn't too interperable
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[jgmac1106] ...well now Moodle courses remixed 1,000s of time through SCORM
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[tantek] 2019/Berlin << Adjacent even: 2019-05-06…08 [https://19.re-publica.com/en re:publica19] - 13th
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Loqi ok, I added "Adjacent even: 2019-05-06…08 [https://19.re-publica.com/en re:publica19] - 13th" to the "See Also" section of /2019/Berlin https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=56398&oldid=55574
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[jgmac1106] uggh do wish their session guidelines didn't start off with rules for good grammar
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[jgmac1106] start with good content..but wow that looks amazing....I hope I ge to go to Berlin this year
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[jgmac1106] or the debate never stops and people build entire careers defining vocabularies when no one in their lifetime truly uses them
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[jgmac1106] benwerd made good point on twitter that activitypubwill do everything xAPI does mainly because the vocabularies will be too extensive only the required things also required by activity pub will matter
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tantek.com edited /2019/Berlin (+845) "adjacent events, previously, headings. dates are set" (view diff)
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aaronpk Re: bootstrapping, of course Silicon Valley needs a term to describe the opposite of raising VC money as if VC money is the normal option, ugh lol
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-02-08.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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@jackyalcine Jacky Alcine replied to a post by http://2019.indieweb.org. (https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/74be1c36-0708-440f-a375-2959933a80ab) (twitter.com/_/status/1093715610108944384)
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[benatwork] Q: I’m in Portland tomorrow. Can anyone recommend a place to work for the day? Also, does anyone want to meet up for lunch or something?
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[tantek] Any photos from HWC New Haven ([jgmac1106]) or Austin ([manton]) for the newsletter?
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[manton] [tantek] Nothing for Austin. Forgot to take a photo last night until it was too late.
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[tantek] No worries! I forget too
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[tantek] !tell jeremycherfas re: /microblog definition, that sounds like it is an alias for a /note post, and micro.blog is not the same as Kleenex as the time order was reversed (microblog was a generic term *before* micro.blog the service was launched, whereas kleenex became generic only long *after* Kleenex the product was launched). Do you mind if turn /microblog into a disambiguation page instead? E.g. it may refer to a /note post, or it may refer
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[tantek] though that's more commonly called micro-dot-blog.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jeremycherfas] [tantek] It’s a wiki; go ahead. 😀
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Loqi [jeremycherfas]: [tantek] left you a message 46 minutes ago: re: /microblog definition, that sounds like it is an alias for a /note post, and micro.blog is not the same as Kleenex as the time order was reversed (microblog was a generic term *before* micro.blog the service was launched, whereas kleenex became generic only long *after* Kleenex the product was launched). Do you mind if turn /microblog into a disambiguation page instead? E.g. it may refer to a /note post, or it may refer
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[eddie] Haha jeremycherfas++
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Loqi jeremycherfas has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (26 in all channels)
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Loqi [eddie]: Zegnat left you a message 20 hours, 45 minutes ago: if you have any opinions about Jitsi to add after last night: https://indieweb.org/Virtual_HWC#Jitsi_Meet
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tantek.com edited /microblog (-155) "note dfn disambiguation, bit of formatting, remove analogy which is temporaly inverted" (view diff)
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[tantek] jeremycherfas, was asking explicitly since it appeared we had quite different perspectives. 🙂
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[tantek] please review the new dfn if you have a chance
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[tantek] what is a microblog
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Loqi microblog is a specific term for an individual note post, the act of writing such a post, a blog which is a collection of such posts, and also the name for a hosted service (Micro.blog) for such blogs https://indieweb.org/microblog
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Events (+37) "/* February */ + Virtual Americas 2-20" (view diff)
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Loqi tantek has 27 karma in this channel over the last year (90 in all channels)
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[eddie] tantek++ That’s a great disambiguation definition!
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+121) "add new haven, 🌳 for Elm city" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /Google (+92) (view diff)
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@frankmeeuwsen Laten we het maar gewoon online gooien. Er komt een IndieWebCamp Utrecht. Waar en wanneer? Dat zoeken we nog uit, maar voorstellen zijn welkom! /cc @ton_zylstra @EwoutWolff @public_spaces https://diggingthedigital.com/eerste-uitnodiging-indiewebcamp/ (twitter.com/_/status/1093814243424653313)
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sknebel Zegnat: ^^^ am I reading this as "we are searching for a time and location for an IWC Utrecht" correctly?
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GWG How about you try New Utrecht?
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sknebel don't you need a time machine for that, or is the area still called that?
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swentel sknebel, yeah that's right
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Loqi swentel: [tantek] left you a message on 2018-12-29 at 7:05pm UTC: For HWC in 2019, since we haven't had a HWC meetup in a couple of weeks now, we could start 2019 with either January 2nd, or January 9th. The 9th would be the regular date, two weeks after the 26th when we had scheduled but canceled. So that's what I'm leaning towards. WDYT?
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@jgmac1106 A successful Homebrew Website Club New Haven: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/08/a-successful-homebrew-website-club-new-haven (twitter.com/_/status/1093827890054086656)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /events/2019-02-06-homebrew-website-club (+498) "/* New Haven */ added New Haven artifacts" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /User:Jgregorymcverry.com (+82) "/* Done */ added some finished tasks" (view diff)
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aaronpk [benatwork]: if you don't mind paying, wework or centrl have drop in rates!
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aaronpk Also I'll be back at 2pm and would love to hang out if my voice is back
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@jgmac1106 @harmonygritz @harmonygritz @joefromkenyon @Autumm @ltaub @chairthrower @BryanAlexander @CathyNDavidson @bergDLAs @floatingtim @JennaAzar know many of you asked about an @IndieWebCamp Online we have a free unconference scheduled 3/9-3/10 … https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/08/harmonygritz-harmonygritz-joefromkenyon-autumm-ltaub-chairthrower-bryanalexander (twitter.com/_/status/1093857287335219200)
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@ton_zylstra It’s on! Eerste Uitnodiging voor IndieWebCamp Utrecht: https://www.zylstra.org/blog/2019/02/its-on-eerste-uitnodiging-voor-indiewebcamp-utrecht/ (twitter.com/_/status/1093870236229607424)
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@ton_zylstra Eerste uitnodiging: #indiewebcamp Utrecht, dit voorjaar. Wil jij ook meer op het #openweb #indieweb? Doe mee. https://www.zylstra.org/blog/2019/02/its-on-eerste-uitnodiging-voor-indiewebcamp-utrecht/ Heb je ideeën voor locaties in Utrecht? Laat het weten! cc @frankmeeuwsen @bertboerland @BNiene @FrieseWoudloper @ajslaghu @kaeru @iskandr (twitter.com/_/status/1093873563210301440)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @kingkool68 Well, true, but he could have used #indieweb likes with webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1093873895172722689)
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www.zylstra.org blog edited /Planning (-2) "/* Utrecht, Netherlands */ changed month" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ stop by #indieweb chat sometime and maybe somebody could help you figure out a solution. https://indieweb.org/chat (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/BLK8n) (twitter.com/_/status/1093878274181263360)
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loqi.me created /CraftCMS (+45) "prompted by jgmac1106 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Hey I found a plugin on the #IndieWeb #craftcms page https://github.com/matthiasott/webmention have no idea how or if it works but give it a spin (then if it works go to wiki and tell other people how to install) (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1E0Dor) (twitter.com/_/status/1093879110504509440)
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[Rose] Eek, another IWC in May
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /CommonsPub (+888) "expanded article" (view diff)
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Zegnat Yikes. May is not good for me. Then I have to chose between Berlin and Utrecht :o
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@ton_zylstra ↩️ die posting van @dries was aanleiding voor een posting van mij gisteren, waarop @frankmeeuwsen een antwoord schreef dat ontspoorde in de vroegtijdige aankondiging van #indiewebcamp . Kortom, het is toch al @Dries z’n schuld, kan-ie net zo goed er bij zijn :D (twitter.com/_/status/1093886397755342849)
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[frank] Hey all
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[frank] I already had a feeling some posts would be automagically POSSED here. But yeah, me and Ton Zijlstra are planning an IWC Utrecht somewhere in the spring.
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[frank] Right now I am looking at dates after Berlin/Dusseldorf because of travelplans of possible international visitors
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[frank] Maybe May 18-19 is an option?
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /Craft (+143) "/* Plugins */ added note that plugin currently does not work." (view diff)
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[tantek] [frank] ++ awesome!
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Loqi [frank] has 2 karma over the last year
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[Rose] May 18-19 would work better than the following weekend for me, but for those of us attending all of them that's 3 weekends of travel in a row 😛
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[Rose] However, if I can make it I'm in! [frank] ++
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[frank] [Rose] Yeah I know...I don't want to plan way into June/July because of holidays and possible other conferences.
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[tantek] That’s the weekend after Beyond Tellerand so that would work well for folks in Europe for that too
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[Rose] June and July are looking nightmarish for me. Plus August - I've got 3 months in a row of trips to the US
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[frank] But since Germany and Netherlands are neighbours and Amsterdam/Utrecht have plenty of options to stay for a few days... 😉
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[Rose] So 3 weekends of short European hops in a row is basically nothing in comparison 😄
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[Rose] Though my boss will wonder if I will ever work on Fridays again 😛
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[frank] Remote work FTW isn't it?
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[Rose] If I can manage it!
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[Rose] reserves that Friday in her work calendar
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[frank] So we (me and [tonz]) will start looking for possible venues first and consider a few dates. We will keep Berlin/Dusseldorf in mind of course. I will try to be in Berlin myself.
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[Rose] I'll be at both 😄
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[frank] We aim for 20 to max 40 attendees per day. I think this is possible because of connections with a rather large Dutch network with interested people. I don't want it to be too big for a first edition 🙂
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[Rose] And Utrecht is worth visiting, so you're high on my list 😄
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[Rose] I miss the Netherlands, being able to shop on Sundays, no tiny coins...
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[frank] You are more than welcome Rose! I'm gonna up my automation tools for some in depth talks with you 🙂
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[Rose] Woot!
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Loqi misses the Netherlands too
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Loqi 😃
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[Rose] Poor Loqi
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petermolnar I'm only now realizing Berlin is planned to be in May this year, that's unlikely I can make it
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[Rose] That's a shame
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Zegnat I don’t think I will be able to travel twice within a 2 week timespan, so I will likely have to chose between Berlin and Utrecht now.
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Zegnat I’ll look into it
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[frank] Logging off. My 7 year old son wants to beat me with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch 😉
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petermolnar when is Utrecht planned?
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Loqi what
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petermolnar if I can connect it with a business trip, I can probably make that
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sknebel petermolnar: May 18-19 was mentioned above as an option
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petermolnar.net edited /User:Petermolnar.net (+0) (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 Why we need the #IndieWeb https://t.co/6f00UovxOy (twitter.com/_/status/1093895351705194497)
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[jeremycherfas] [tantek] I’m happy with your definition. You miss the point of the analogy, which is not between Kleenex and kleenex but between Kleenex and facial tissue. Timing is not the point. Specific for general is the point. But it really isn’t important to me.
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[jgmac1106] [frank] I am always up to... Errrm test Switch games after kids in bed.... Got whooped in Splatoon last night
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[tmiller] I’ll still be in Europe so I could probably make Utrecht as well!
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[tantek] Jeremycherfas sorry I missed the point. Feel free to store and I’ll try expressing the contrast instead
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[tantek] to *restore
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[jeremycherfas] Nah. As I say, not worth it. But your disambiguation is spot on.
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[tantek] Appreciated jeremeycherfas. I think the back & forth helped improve the article
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[jeremycherfas] I know that we’ve lost the distinction between blog and blog post, which I regret, and at least your “note” preserves that.
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[tantek] Since we seem to be good at expressing different perspectives, could you review /openwashing ?
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aaronpk it annoys me to no end when people call blog posts "blogs"
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aaronpk but I think I'm just going to have to eat it
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[jeremycherfas] When I am at my desk. Currently on phone.
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[jeremycherfas] Yeah, me too aaronpk. All we can do is maintain the usage ourselves.
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Planning (+26) "/* NYC */ Add a possible month after looking through months for other IWCs in 2019" (view diff)
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[eddie] [jgmac1106] I see New Haven on the planning page still. It only seems to have shooting for April in that section. Cool if i remove it?
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[jgmac1106] Yeah we have set dates did I forget to make wiki page?
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[eddie] No, I think it just forgot to be removed from /Planning
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[eddie] yeah https://indieweb.org/2019/New_Haven has much more info including all info from /PLanning
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[eddie] So I'll just remove it
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] I will poke around I swore we either had another page or we added open washing as a criticism else where
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[jgmac1106] ... Actually don't remove it
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[jgmac1106] Organizers use the Planning page long into IWC for stufd
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[jgmac1106] The date yes
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[eddie] Normall it moves from /Planning to /2019/New_Haven/Planning
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[eddie] right?
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[eddie] Like the section seems empty and like there isn't an IWC going on: https://indieweb.org/Planning#New_Haven
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[eddie] and I don't see any sections on the planning page for any other active IWCs
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[jgmac1106] Ahh okay.
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Planning (-299) "/* New Haven */ removed because all info is on /2019/New_Haven also /2019/New_Haven/Planning is now available" (view diff)
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@MarkBrudos Surprised to find my name was available on Twitter. Couldn’t create a developer account yet, so POSSE will have to wait for now. https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/1093909688394092545)
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eddiehinkle.com created /2019/New_Haven/Planning (+321) "Move archive from /Planning" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Planning (+11) "/* NYC */ Add September as possible as mentioned by jgmac1106" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /openwashing (+216) "/* Classes of examples */ added oer example" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /openwashing (+106) "/* See Also */ added article" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /openwashing (+255) "/* See Also */ added sources" (view diff)
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[schmarty] [tmiller] have you ever been to thebeannyc.com? they have several locations and are open late. amy recommended we could try it out for HWC.
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Planning (+8) "/* Washington DC */ Update for potential 2019 camp to start brainstorming" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] I checked the open washing, I added the content around oER as that is context more than APIs where it emerged, I also tried to move See Also into a more chronological order but your key definitions at top made sense so I left those
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[jgmac1106] I don't see any bias beyond commmunity values of open in the article
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] appreciated. Always better when our pages have multiple contributors
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[jgmac1106] and really cool thornet coined the term as part of Mozilla Webmaker...warms the heart
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[jgmac1106] my wife is breaking bed bowls for a party I have to go stare at the oven for a few minutes....need my laptop back
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[jgmac1106] lot of sources here: but no links to citations: http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Openwashing
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[tmiller] [schmarty] no I haven’t but we can definitely switch our meeting spot to one of these locations
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[jgmac1106] Tantek I think we lost much of the history discussing the page using chat because there wasn't much in search history but I remember sending you many of the links
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[schmarty] [tmiller] the one at 3rd Ave & E 9th looks bigger from the google street view panorama. they call it their "Cooper Union" location.
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[tmiller] Oh okay cool, I’ll let Leigh know
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[schmarty] lmk if it's too much of a pain to get there and we can change it ahead of time. if we don't like it for any reason we can try again elsewhere.
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[tantek] ooh there was an actual talk on "Open Washing": https://iodc18.sched.com/event/FPpY/open-washing - I wonder if it would be possible to find a recording
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] I think we've reconstructed enough of the history of /openwashing
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[tantek] openwashing << http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Openwashing
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Loqi ok, I added "http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Openwashing" to the "See Also" section of /openwashing https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=56429&oldid=56427
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] is p2pfoundation an org we should reach out to, to uh, peer with?
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[tantek] Or just request accounts on their wiki and start fixing broken links?
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[jgmac1106] they used to be really involved with MoFo
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[tantek] Do you have an account there?
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[jgmac1106] unless p2pu is different: https://www.p2pu.org/en/about/
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[tantek] Try logging into that wiki link you sent
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[jgmac1106] paper on openwashing on researchgate: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315739928_Openwashing_A_decoupling_perspective_on_organizational_transparency irony
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[jgmac1106] i did usuals didn't work. requested account
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Planning (-376) "/* Washington DC */ Add possible venues section to brainstorming, clear out interested in participating because its old info" (view diff)
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[tantek] openwashing << 2018-09-27 IODC18: [https://iodc18.sched.com/event/FPpY/open-washing Open Washing] session / panel
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-09-27 IODC18: [https://iodc18.sched.com/event/FPpY/open-washing Open Washing] session / panel" to the "See Also" section of /openwashing https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=56431&oldid=56429
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[tantek] neverming the irony, Wikipedia likes research paper citations like that for notability
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[tantek] openwashing << 2017 April: Technological Forecasting Social Change journal: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315739928_Openwashing_A_decoupling_perspective_on_organizational_transparency Openwashing: A decoupling perspective on organizational transparency]
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Loqi ok, I added "2017 April: Technological Forecasting Social Change journal: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315739928_Openwashing_A_decoupling_perspective_on_organizational_transparency Openwashing: A decoupling perspective on organizational transparency]" to the "See Also" section of /openwashing https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=56432&oldid=56431
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@qubyte ↩️ My hope is that the #indieweb picks up more and more of these, and we hit some sort of critical mass of linked independent blogs. (twitter.com/_/status/1093925471656517633)
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@jgmac1106 Have you both installed the #indieweb webring? its a blast of randomness fresh each day and just keeps growing and growing. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1KLU6w) (twitter.com/_/status/1093926449248116737)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Have you both installed the #indieweb webring? its a blast of randomness fresh each day and just keeps growing and growing. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/2sGOY) (twitter.com/_/status/1093926647479312384)
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[eddie] !tell jgarber are you still interested in co-organizing IWC DC?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ @ambrwlsn90 This #IndieWeb search engine is a great tool for random blog discovery: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=001473925626342383772:izm-5gxypp4 and we also now added an #IndieWeb directory that can make for fun blog discovery (but folks just getting added) (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1vwYBd) (twitter.com/_/status/1093928457770319873)
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@qubyte ↩️ @jgmac1106 @ambrwlsn90 This thing? Already in there ;) https://indieweb-directory.glitch.me/ (twitter.com/_/status/1093932327544213505)
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aaronpk TIL the origin of the term "grandfathered" is pretty terrible and we should not use it
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jacky oh?
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aaronpk hm it's a private post from someone on instagram so I can't link it, let me see if I can find the source
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@jgmac1106 To join the #IndieWeb ring go here: https://twitter.com/qubyte/status/1093932517911158787 and then you can opt-in to the directory here: https://indieweb-directory.glitch.me/ If people need help setting up their website to login point them to chat. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/sRAxl) (twitter.com/_/status/1093933873690537984)
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@jgmac1106 @qubyte To join the #IndieWeb ring go here: https://xn--sr8hvo.ws/ and then you can opt-in to the directory here: https://indieweb-directory.glitch.me/ If people need help setting up their website to login point them to chat. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/29zbAU) (twitter.com/_/status/1093934236967538688)
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aaronpk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause
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aaronpk possibly possibly it's been coopted in modern language now enough that it isn't a concern to use it, but I think i'll still play it safe and avoid it
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[eddie] Wow. 😞 It makes me sad whenever I realize the origin of so many general every day word uses. Makes me disappointed in America.
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aaronpk yeah pretty much
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@jgmac1106 Today in #IndieWeb meta discussion I learned about the horribly racist past of "Grandfather Clause" add that to the list of phrases to fall out of my favor. Words Matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/lRHx3) (twitter.com/_/status/1093935727249891329)
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[jgmac1106] yeah we could say someone was first nationed, as inb they were here first so the rule doesn't apply
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[jgmac1106] I won't but wow had no idea
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[tantek] yeah that's pretty terrible. sorry
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[tantek] "past exempted"
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ @qubyte Sorry broke the thread copying and pasting links in wrong places https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/08/qubyte-to-join-the-indieweb-ring-go (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1ra0P2) (twitter.com/_/status/1093938340053819401)
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@tomwiththeweath signed up for indiewebcamp austin! https://2019.indieweb.org/austin (twitter.com/_/status/1093938518966108163)
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[tantek] [tmiller] one thing we could use help with for IWC Berlin is getting 2019.indieweb.org/berlin setup - there's some folks here who have setup those pages and know how to do it from previous versions, what pitfalls to avoid etc.
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[tmiller] Okay I can start trying to work on that, I’ll take a look at some of the other ones to try and get a better understanding on how to set it up
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[tantek] [tmiller]++ thanks!
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Loqi [tmiller] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
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[tantek] key pieces we don't omit: showing indie rsvps, showing tito registrations, form field to donate to diversity travel, form field to apply for diversity travel
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[tmiller] Okay great and if I run into any issues I’ll reach out here for help
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Zegnat Can anyone who has been added to Tito add new organisers to the group, or are we dependent on aaronpk to add people?
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Zegnat (Asking here, rather than continueing in chat, so Q&A gets logged)
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[eddie] Also from chat, one learned lesson is I think it's best to have an Organizer do the 2019 page. During December I thought it would be helpful to set up the page for Austin, but it ended up missing a lot of info because I was in no way connected with organizing (or even attending). I just knew the day/time was verified. I would not recommend that again. It caused more issues than it solved 🙂
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aaronpk i've been adding everyone as admins so anyone else can add other people
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Zegnat aaronpk, good to know! Great foresight :) I am guessing we just assume a certain level of trust for all organisers
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aaronpk especially organizers of indiewebcamps who have done it before
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[tmiller] [aaronpk] is that something I need access to to create a registration link for the IndieWeb camp Berlin ?
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aaronpk yep I don't think my internet is good enough right now to add you
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Zegnat Is [eddie] a Tito admin? He might be able to hop in if he is still reading this
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Zegnat does not have that access
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[eddie] Yeah I can do that
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[tmiller] Thank you !
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[eddie] My pleasure 🙂
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[eddie] Also, if you have any questions about the editing of the actual 2019 event pages, feel free to ping me, as I have done a couple of them as well
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[eddie] Also for Tito I would probably start with duplicating the IndieWeb Summit 2018 event. That's gonna give you the best base
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[manton] Thanks for updating the wiki pages for "microblog" vs. "Micro.blog", everyone. We always pronounce the "dot" in Micro.blog. I definitely don't want to take ownership of lowercase "microblog" which is a real word.
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@manton2 IndieWebCamp Austin is in 2 weeks! Whether you’re a blogger, developer, designer, or just want to learn more about the independent web, hope you can join us. Registration is just $5 or free if you blog your RSVP to the event. https://2019.indieweb.org/austin (twitter.com/_/status/1093964440075157504)
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[jgmac1106] manton++
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Loqi manton has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (62 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] 16 registered already
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[eddie] !tell [chrisaldrich] a year or two ago in Washington DC IWC planning you mentioned that you might have connections with the School for Advanced International Studies that could lead to it being used as a possible venue? (https://indieweb.org/Planning#Washington_DC) Just feeling out if that is still a potential connection or if I should clean it up off the page?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] Eddie I may have space for you in DC, sh
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[eddie] Yeah? where might that be?
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[jgmac1106] Universities or a shared work space in Crystal City
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[eddie] Gotcha. That's helpful to know. It's still in vague brainstorming stage for now. I'll list those on the wiki as "possible venues" while we keep track of potential locations
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[eddie] Any specific universities I should list?
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[jgmac1106] Let me make inquiries privately first
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[jgmac1106] Have mad connections at George Mason
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[eddie] Ahh gotcha. Definitely only do soft inquiries since we don't know when or completely IF it'll happen.
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[jgmac1106] The shared work space just need to ask about security
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[eddie] But I've reached out to two people that listed themselves as possible co-organizers in the past. So we'll see if they are still interested
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[eddie] If so, it'll have a much better chance of happening.
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[jgmac1106] Schmarty could connect you to Jonathon maybe
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[schmarty] [jonathanprozzi] hangs out here on occasion.
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[eddie] Yeah and [jonathanprozzi] and I have met in Baltimore before. Not sure if he would want to help organize a IWC DC or not. But if so, he would be welcome to 🙂
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-02-08.html
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@mathemagenic Getting back to blogging makes me feel strongly about all those things I've been missing in the "friendly" walled garden of FB. I'll see if I can make it to IndieWebCamp Utrecht, but it is worth sharing so more people can join. (twitter.com/_/status/1093989519920164865)
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[eddie] Regarding the IndieWebGuides discussion that came up in chat, I think the approach itself is very useful. It has a few too many clicks, but I think the key is it's focus is on "Which of these things would you like to do?"
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[eddie] Very action oriented
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jacky word - that's the powerful bit
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[eddie] and I think we could take some of those concepts to the Getting Started pages on IndieWeb.org and that would be helpful
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[jgmac1106] yeah but I just started at querstion "Do You Want to IndieWeb" and it gets big fast
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[jgmac1106] but love the idea
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[eddie] What do you mean "Do you want to IndieWeb"
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[eddie] and what gets big fast?
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aaronpk indiewebguides is also biting off a bigger piece of the pie than I was planning to with my building block tutorial series
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[tantek] I also think it's a UX error to assume users want to actually pick and choose features like that
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[jgmac1106] well the quest began with "what would you send to your colleagues" three best articke
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[tantek] good design means you pick good defaults and provide a *simple* path for them
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[Rose] I think if people are looking at a getting started guide you can assume they want to, and provide a link to the advantages of it at the top for those who ended up there without knowing what it is.
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[jgmac1106] I would say that would have to be what, why, how
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[Rose] That to me is 3 guides. Linked, but independent of one another.
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[eddie] tantek I don't think it's a UX error to say "What of these 4 things would you like to do?"
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[jgmac1106] If you read to the how post then you have answered the question "Do you want to IndieWeb"
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[tantek] it is if each of those four then leads to picking from another four
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[eddie] Correct
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[tantek] which is what the current guides kinda do
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[eddie] I think the drill down approach is too much
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[eddie] everyone's IndieWeb goals are different. But I think we could come up with ~4 basic ones for new people
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[eddie] So taking the idea from the IndieWebGuide of actionable direction, but reducing the options and focusing on things you would do when Getting Started
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[eddie] I think it would be an incremental improvement to just making the onboarding flow a bit more direct and action oriented than information based, which is what it is now
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[tantek] Eddie, for general "making the onboarding flow a bit more direct and action oriented" take a look at the three column home page ideas that we've been working on
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[tantek] what is three column home page
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "three column home page" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "three column home page is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[eddie] tantek I'm familiar. I remotely attended IWC NYC 2018 where it was originally discussed
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[eddie] I think that is definitely a great improvement for the homepage
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[eddie] Although I haven't been able to find much info on it stored anywhere since
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[jgmac1106] in that diagram I tried to answer that with How much code do you want to tocuh, "none, some, tons"
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[jgmac1106] while stressing all the IndieWeb platforms utilize open standards that allow them to grow with you
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[Rose] I'd like a link to the 3 column home page stuff if there's one.
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[tantek] it's definitely on the wiki somewhere
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[jgmac1106] when you scan through the chapter I am working on you will see it follows the same three "column" layout
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[jgmac1106] NYC Organizers notes
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[Rose] (I'm on a bus, but I'll search later!)
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[eddie] https://indieweb.org/2018/NYC/Organizers#Homepage_Updates_.28Three_Paths.29
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[tantek] I wonder if this is the only place we captured it
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[eddie] That's the only place I've ever seen it
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[tantek] because that looks like just meeting notes, rather than an "in progress project"
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[eddie] correct
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[jgmac1106] Berlin?
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[jgmac1106] did it make the agenda?
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[eddie] I haven't seen any in progress project stuff since NYC Organizers meeting
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[jgmac1106] yeah that involves the wizbangery of CSS in CSS in wikimedia only few wizards try to cast those incantations
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[jgmac1106] ...I think....plus life
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] I don't see anything about it from Berlin Organizers: https://indieweb.org/2018/Berlin/Organizers#Agenda
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Zegnat I don’t remember it from Berlin
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[jgmac1106] going to turn this flow chart I made into a Google Slide show with action buttons, but kids just got home
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tantek.com edited /CraftCMS (-26) "r" (view diff)
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[tantek] newsletter is looking very good. four photos!
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[tantek] what is bootstrapping
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bootstrapping" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "bootstrapping is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat Oh, did someone upload the Virtual EU screenshot?! Who took it, ... aaronpk?
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[tantek] hmm how did we "project manage" (lol) the last re-do of the homepage/
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aaronpk Crap did I not upload that
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[tantek] was it 2016?
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Zegnat aaronpk, I too had totally forgotten about it until just now
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] do you have a link for Live Binder and/or how it is relevant to IndieWeb? Are you asking them to support Micropub? etc.
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[jgmac1106] no you can delete if you want, to me its one of the older social bookmarking platforms still breathing thought it should go up
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[jgmac1106] and then I stumble on stuff like this and want to go play: http://alienrescue.edb.utexas.edu/
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] is this it? http://www.livebinders.com/
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[jgmac1106] yes i peaked behind it when we were discussing collections but its pretty ugly
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[tantek] ok I'll delete for now
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[tantek] if you find any opportunity to indiewebify it, we can recreate
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[jgmac1106] sounds good
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tantek.com deleted /Live_Binder "no links, no specific relevance to indieweb. can re-add if there is one later"
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[tantek] done
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[tantek] I'm still in the habit of trying to think up a good new dfn for [schmarty] to read, despite knowing the Audio Edition is no longer happening. 😂
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[tantek] what is postactiv
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Loqi postActiv is an open source fork of GNU social https://indieweb.org/postActiv
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tantek.com edited /Plateia (+6) "linky" (view diff)
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[tantek] what is Plateia
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Loqi Plateia is the postActiv lead dev’s home-cooked instance https://indieweb.org/Plateia
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[tantek] ooh is that experimental new use of the "eat your cooking" metaphor?
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[tantek] !tell Zegnat didn't we resolve this one? https://indieweb.org/Organizers#Discussion_Channels
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] found it! https://indieweb.org/2016/homepage
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[tantek] so how about /2019/homepage for the project to update the homepage (three column onboarding etc.) ?
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Zegnat [tantek], hmm, yes, I think so. Or rather, it simply hasn’t been coming up at all anymore and therefor I’d say there is no real issue for organisers to discuss
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Loqi Zegnat: [tantek] left you a message 4 minutes ago: didn't we resolve this one? https://indieweb.org/Organizers#Discussion_Channels
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[tantek] Zegnat TBH I don't remember when we discussed it but I feel like we did and decide not to change anything? Or maybe explicitly document it on the the /discuss page that all those uses of the wordpress channel were ok?
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[tantek] What do you remember?
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Zegnat I feel like we asked GWG about it in Berlin and the same sentiment was expressed around the room: the sentiment of it not requiring action
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-02-08.html
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Zegnat searches "WordPress" on the Berlin Organizers page
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[tantek] who was the person that criticized IndieWeb because Google was a sponsor? Kinda like https://fosdem.org/2019/about/sponsors/ ?
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Zegnat Hmm, does not say there
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[tantek] should we put a Disclosure section for any page that is about an org that has also sponsored IndieWebCamp?
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Zegnat Lol, [tantek], apparently there is an item assigned to me to “Clear discussion channels item from all /Organizers” from the Berlin meetup
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[tantek] in the interest of transparency etc
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[tantek] lololol
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Zegnat So, yeah, it can be removed, and I was right to recall it should be removed. For some reason I just forgot I was the one who should be doing that!
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[tantek] 🙂
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Zegnat adds to weekend’s todo list
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Zegnat I’m going offline now, see if I can race the clock and be in bed at midnight. But I’ll go through organiser pages tomorrow
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[tantek] Zegnat WDYT of /2019/homepage as a project page for doing the new three column layout?
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[tantek] for comparison: /2016/homepage
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GWG We resolved it, I thought
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Zegnat Oh interesting. I think keeping projects like that on a specific page (giving the project a URL) makes sense
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[jgmac1106] something like this: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vSKoQonR1xW4mehjGBs9nysgZx876QRZ_BOz3AHBGZnyq2JoFG6mS3mWgq9d9uLKPJzihhkyiOzse34/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=60000
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[tantek] haha would work better as a memeable flowchart 🙂
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[jgmac1106] ohh yes just workijng fast but would totally fill it with memes and make it html based
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[jgmac1106] If anyone wants to fool around as well editable link: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1vUCtNPAr6yMvPXdquRnOC7okHJWf7pOb54PUXdssBQI/edit?usp=sharing
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-02-08.html https://t.co/8wODO5ub23 (twitter.com/_/status/1094011772921495552)
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[tantek] looking good everyone!
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[jgmac1106] tantek what did I do wrong here so these were nto picked up: https://indieweb.org/events/2019-02-06-homebrew-website-club
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] 1. I see broken image icons. 2. there already is a "Photos" section
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[jgmac1106] ohh I thought photos went under each city they belonged to
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[jgmac1106] I know for next time
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[tantek] uh what? never
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[tantek] also no u-photo etc.
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[tantek] see how the other photos there use the photosrcalt template
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[jgmac1106] okay we need to make those instructions better for HWC organizers
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[tantek] general technique: 1. edit/view source, 2. see how others are doing something, 3. copy/paste. 4. do not make up stuff from off the top of your head or first principles.
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[tantek] ^^^ this is general approach valid for any/all web authoring/coding
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[tantek] no need for HWC specific instructions 🙂
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[jgmac1106] ....or general technique say, "wow no worries it was your second time trying. We will get it next time."
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[jgmac1106] but yeah that tehcnique will work
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[tantek] of course no worries. just trying to pass on a general tip rather than specific one.
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[jgmac1106] I just misunderstood and worried about the deadline
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[tantek] deadlines are good for practicing
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[tantek] sees how well you have learned a technique if you can do it under pressure
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[jgmac1106] deadlines, they are a must, three kids, jobs and life, missing deadlines can also show where priorities lie
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[jgmac1106] I want a group photo next time anyways
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[jgmac1106] Those will look way better than my single shots or one group photo taking out cords
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[eddie] tantek I like /2019/homepage as a project page! Great idea
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[eddie] That’ll be easy to remember to checkin and hopefully be able to help move things forward
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[tantek] alrighty
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[tantek] what is 2019/homepage
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2019/homepage" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "2019/homepage is ____", a sentence describing the term)