#meta 2020-12-04

2020-12-04 UTC
chrisaldrich and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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[chrisaldrich] from where is https://chat.indieweb.org/ pulling images for users? I would have expected /chat-names but I changed that source... maybe it takes a bit to propogate?
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[chrisaldrich] s/propogate/propagate
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sknebel yes, thats not immediate
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[chrisaldrich] thanks!
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aaronparecki.com edited /2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+94) "indieauth spec updates" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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[chrisaldrich] The new FOMO page could use some love with respect to IndieWeb relevance... any ideas or should we scrap it as it was likely an accidental and tangential definition in a related context?
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rvklein.me edited /webmention.io (+35) "Proudly displaying the newfound usage of webmention.io on rvklein.me 🐇" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /FOMO (+193) "Adding IndieWeb context" (view diff)
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[eddie] How is this?
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[eddie] What is FOMO?
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Loqi FOMO is Fear of Missing Out https://indieweb.org/FOMO
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[eddie] Ahh! It stops at the period haha
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eddiehinkle.com edited /FOMO (+1) "Make IndieWeb be part of summary" (view diff)
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[eddie] What is fomo?
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Loqi FOMO is Fear of Missing Out, which can be utilized as a Dark Pattern in silos and various websites to draw behavior out of their users; IndieWeb sites and apps should strive to avoid causing this emotion when possible https://indieweb.org/FOMO
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[eddie] Feel free to remove or make more edits, but I think that was the context it was added in
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eddiehinkle.com edited /FOMO (+191) "Add stories as a potential cause" (view diff)
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[eddie] story << FOMO
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Loqi ok, I added "[[FOMO]]" to the "See Also" section of /story https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73864&oldid=73830
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[eddie] FOMO << story
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Loqi ok, I added "[[story]]" to a new "See Also" section of /FOMO https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73865&oldid=73863
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loqi.me edited /FOMO (+29) "[eddie] added "[[story]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[eddie] Well, now we’re committed 🤣
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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ohhelloana.blog edited /FOMO (+22) "/* Features / Things that can commonly cause FOMO */" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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[eddie] Ohhh good one ana!
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[tantek] infinite scroll << doomscrolling
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Loqi ok, I added "[[doomscrolling]]" to the "See Also" section of /infinite_scroll https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73872&oldid=66322
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tantek.com edited /doomscrolling (+54) "enabled by infinite scroll" (view diff)
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[tantek] should we distinguish antipattern and darkpattern?
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[tantek] I feel there's a pretty big difference
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[tantek] adopting antipatterns is self-harming (and possibly others), adopting darkpatterns is harming others for your own benefit
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aaronparecki.com edited /Laravel (+75) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Laravel (+55) (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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aaronparecki.com edited /easter_egg (+88) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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Loqi [Event Updated] lahacker.net updated "Dec 2, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - The Americas" changed cover_image https://events.indieweb.org/event/189/history/679/diff
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aaronpk lahacker: you gotta upload it as a photo rather than cover image!
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Loqi [Event Updated] lahacker.net updated "Dec 2, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - The Americas" changed cover_image https://events.indieweb.org/event/189/history/680/diff
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aaronpk otherwise it won't show up in the newsletter
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lahacker on it
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aaronpk you're fast
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lahacker all good?
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aaronpk Ya! Apparently I don't have notifications when a photo is added
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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loqi.me edited /easter_egg (+44) "[tantek] added "Unrelated to [[chicken]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[tantek] when did we lose the 80s HWC cover images?
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[tantek] can we get them back?
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maxwelljoslyn tantek: on it
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Loqi [Event Updated] www.maxwelljoslyn.com updated "Dec 9, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - The Americas" changed cover_image "add 80s cover image. *insert 80s catchphrase here*" https://events.indieweb.org/event/190/history/681/diff
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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[tantek] I feel like we talked about whether or not to count the newsletter as a gift for the IndieWeb Gift Calendar yet when I searched chat I couldn't find any such discussion
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[tantek] my rough recall is that we discussed it, and there wasn't any strong opposition but that we didn't ever follow-up on it?
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[tantek] looks like we've never counted it in the past
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aaronpk I thought we have in the past
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[tantek] I thought so to, yet none of the past gift calendar pages have the newsletter in any Friday boxes
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[tantek] too*
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aaronpk Odd
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[tantek] funny that we both remembered differently from the pages
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[tantek] GWG when did we start uploading IWC videos exclusively to Internet Archive vs. YouTube?
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GWG It was after one of the Summits. Maybe 2 years ago.
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GWG And I'm still not done with the migration of old ones.
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aaronpk we never promised to migrate old ones :)
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aaronpk 2018 were on youtube, 2019 summit on archive.org
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GWG aaronpk: Someone volunteered, but didn't do it, so I have been doing it over time
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tantek.com edited /2019/Schedule (-18) "reduce an h3 a bit" (view diff)
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GWG Also, that's how I found 2 year old non-migrated etherpads.
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GWG I should check to see if anyone watched some of the old ones I moved over
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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Loqi I agree
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[tantek] so we started with 2019 Summit on the whole, and then some past IWCs have been either backfilled to IA or transferred?
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[tantek] GWG, aside, any more pop-ups planned for this year?
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GWG I'd like one. Do you have a topic idea?
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tantek.com edited /Internet_Archive (+120) "note since 2019 primary place we host videos" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG, is this the list of all pop-ups? https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/Schedule
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[tantek] I didn't find microformats on there and thought we did do one on microformats
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tantek.com edited /2020/Pop-ups/Schedule (+92) "add an archive link to past events" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG, https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/Schedule needs some work, it's not a schedule right now, the pop-ups listed are not in order
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[tantek] and they're missing a whole bunch of them from https://events.indieweb.org/tag/popup/archive
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[tantek] (e.g. the microformats popup is missing from https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/Schedule)
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[tantek] Since you are likely more familiar with where all the wiki pages with video etc. are for each of the pop-ups, can you make a manual list on https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/Schedule per date?
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[tantek] like in date order
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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[tantek] btw this is a good example of how/why using / depending on MediaWiki Categories fail (especially for primary navigation like lists of things)
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GWG Do you have a topic idea?
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[tantek] GWG, I'm having trouble navigating the existing wiki pages on pop-ups to find *existing* topic ideas (as well as the full list of past pop-ups)
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[tantek] I'd rather not redo work someone else has done
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aaronpk https://events.indieweb.org/tag/popup/archive
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[tantek] yes I know I just added that link ^ which doesn't reveal the videos or other random notes for example
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GWG I will see what I can do
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tantek.com edited /2020/Pop-ups/Microformats (+40) "trying to add category IWC Pop-ups 2020 Sessions to see if that works to get this in the auto-generated list" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+551) "add some of the pop-ups so they're easily one-click accessible (the Pop-ups page itself didn't have an easy to browse list of the actual pop-ups), abbreviate Online and Pop-up" (view diff)
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[tantek] ^ well that was a bunch harder than expected. GWG please verify that I got all the pop-ups into the list for 2020 on that Template
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[tantek] anyway, when something is hard to navigate like that, it kinda saps all the excitement and creative energy to actually do something new or contribute, so now I don't have any idea what kind of pop-up topic I'd want to do
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[tantek] let's please go back to actually keeping lists of things instead of depending on Category: hacks & macros please
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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tantek.com edited /2020/Pop-ups/Schedule (+251) "this is a stub at best, explicit sections for upcoming and past with links to events.indieweb" (view diff)
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GWG Maybe we need to stub out 2021 as well
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GWG Maybe instead of a separate pop-ups it just becomes part of /2021
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[tantek] I'd suggest we don't ever depend on {{#categorytree: for any nav
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[tantek] because it depends on people keeping Category: tags updated which has proven time and time again to be a *collaborative* point of failure
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aaronpk i thought all the session pages from IWCs are pretty well organized with category tags
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[tantek] nope
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/Category:2019
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/Category:2019_sessions
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[tantek] and there's no way to tell when things have been accidentally left out
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aaronpk isn't that true of any list?
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[tantek] nope
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aaronpk i don't understand the aversion to categories in this case
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[tantek] the /Schedule pages are comprehensive
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[tantek] because they have to be to list the whole grid of sessions for a IWC
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aaronpk per event yes
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aaronpk but not across events, which is what the categories do
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tantek.com edited /2020/Pop-ups (+1) "push toc down" (view diff)
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aaronpk but yes i agree that a "Schedule" page should be in time order. and since these popups tend to be focused on a single topic and usually are an event with just one session, there is little benefit to using categories for the 2020 sessions the way we did it in 2019
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[tantek] aaronpk, note how much easier it is to navigate across various years and cities and camps in this template: https://indieweb.org/Template:IndieWebCamp (as compared to ANYTHING category oriented)
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aaronpk depends on what your navigation goals are
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[tantek] not really, we're talking information density and ease of quick discovery
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[tantek] this is all basic Tufte 101 type stuff
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aaronpk "how many micropub sessions were there in 2019?"
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aaronpk good luck answering that from that list
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aaronpk however: https://indieweb.org/Category:2019_sessions
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[tantek] for camps, not sessions
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[tantek] similarly: https://indieweb.org/cities
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[tantek] never seen anyone want to scope sessions by topic to just one year, it's more like, what are all the previous sessions/discussions about Micropub?
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[tantek] e.g. https://indieweb.org/Micropub#Sessions
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[KevinMarks] now that we make a hashtag for a session, should that be added as a wiki category too?
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aaronpk sounds like a good reason to create a "micropub sessions" category :)
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[tantek] KevinMarks are you signing up to maintain those wiki categories?
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aaronpk that's easier than trying to remember all the lists to add a page to
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[tantek] no because those lists give the illusion of completeness which is misleading
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[tantek] that's the problem
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aaronpk so does the list under that micropub sessions header
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[tantek] whereas at least a *manual* list is pretty transparent about its accuracy
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[tantek] no. big different. note the last item in the list
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aaronpk eh, that's subjective whether that's "big"
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[tantek] that's the kind subtle UI design that works
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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@ShadowKyogre #processwire #indieweb #fediverse - Made some progress on the IndieWeb implementation for http://fed.brid.gy on my PW install. There was no module for WebSubs, so I started writing one. Right now it only focuses on the publisher's… https://mastodon.social/@ShadowKyogre/105324212732368088 (twitter.com/_/status/1334984007818338309)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-12-04.html (twitter.com/_/status/1334999683962290176)