#meta 2022-11-03

2022-11-03 UTC
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@an_agora ↩️ https://anagora.org/DoOO https://anagora.org/IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1587958409588097028)
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@ChrisAldrich This thread is one of the reasons the academics I've seen in the Domain of One's Own Space have so much more freedom and flexibility in online spaces. #DoOO #IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/A_Domain_of_One%27s_Own (twitter.com/_/status/1587958304503828480)
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@mklin I've been trying to do this for a while now, didn't realise it had a name til now: https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/1587962758594670597)
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@eric_mccorkle As for Mastodon, it's in my bio. Follow me, and I'll probably follow back. I'm on the indieweb instance now, but I'll likely wander around instances. (twitter.com/_/status/1587962354209366017)
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@graeme_fulton ↩️ I think people there are interested in talking, bit like a forum. Here ppl seem to go quiet and disappear in the noise I'm in https://indieweb.social/, had 0 followers and many people reply to my qs. A bit confusing to use but prefer it overall (twitter.com/_/status/1587965080167227399)
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@femuca #indieweb ⁦@microdotblog⁩ http://micro.blog https://www.timothychambers.net/2022/11/02/agree-with-everything.html (twitter.com/_/status/1587972674831241218)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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Loqi [New Event] david.shanske.com created "Nov 9, 2022 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" https://events.indieweb.org/Uo96NMJfdnlx
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+176) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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@tchambers ↩️ You are welcome over here: https://indieweb.social/invite/NzA7HPR5 (twitter.com/_/status/1587988917579571200)
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[tantek] [timothy_chambe]++
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Loqi [timothy_chambe] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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tantek.com edited /2018/Berlin/Organizers (+208) "/* Where */ add dinner location, aaronpk's post & photo" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+116) "/* 2018 */ 11-02 Organizers Meetup" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+98) "/* 2019 */ 11-23…24 IWC Berlin2" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+61) "/* 2020 */ IWC London was virtual in GMT, noting a few other first" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+2) "/* 2022 */ Seventh IWC Berlin (sixth was Berlin2 in 2019)" (view diff)
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@t ↩️ many AP impls, e.g. #BridgyFed as noted. Also @microdotblog. You can setup http://notes.mnot.net served by https://micro.blog/, post w their apps or https://indieweb.org/Micropub/Clients, @-mention w #Webmention, & have Mastodon followers w/o using Mastodon. https://tantek.com/t5Md1 (twitter.com/_/status/1588019549089435649)
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Loqi Countdown set by [tantek] on 2022-10-26 at 10:21pm PDT
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Loqi !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2022/11/homebrew-website-club-pacific-9Q6fI2CI6Kbl events/2022-11-02-hwc-pacific
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cali.jamesg.blog created /events/2022-11-02-hwc-pacific (+1620) "Created page with " '''<dfn>Homebrew Website Club - Pacific</dfn>''' was an IndieWeb meetup on Zoom held on 2022-11-02. * https://events.indieweb.org/2022/11/homebrew-website-club-pacific-9Q6fI2CI6Kbl * When: 2022-11-02 * Archived from: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2022-11-02-hwc-pacific HWC Pacific 2022-11-02 == Participants == * {{gwg}} * {{angelo}} * {{slyduda}} * {{t}} == Notes == * https://ragt.ag/code/python-indieauth * https://developers.home-assistant.io..."" (view diff)
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cali-iwc Created https://indieweb.org/events/2022-11-02-hwc-pacific. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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@f4grx ↩️ 200k la semaine dernière, 28k par jour, selon cette source. https://mastodon.social/@ts@indieweb.social/109277597801243612 (twitter.com/_/status/1588068865841545218)
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@danielsouza I’m Taking Ownership of My Tweets—http://zachleat.com #indieweb https://www.zachleat.com/web/own-my-tweets/ (twitter.com/_/status/1588079651607515136)
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@oceanzhuo 试用了WordPress 2023的主题 虽然很轻量，但不是特别适合内容复杂的博客，区块主题不支持以前的帖子格式。因此，这样很难兼容IndieWeb协议。 和预想中的不一样，2022的缺点几乎全部继承过来了。 我真的很难去开发一个WordPress主题 (twitter.com/_/status/1588096907535998978)
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@yvg ↩️ Ok I'm here now https://indieweb.social/web/@yvg (twitter.com/_/status/1588103711502614530)
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@nexuszhuo 试用了WordPress 2023的主题 虽然很轻量，但不是特别适合内容复杂的博客，区块主题不支持以前的帖子格式。因此，这样很难兼容IndieWeb协议。 和预想中的不一样，2022的缺点几乎全部继承过来了。 我真的很难去开发一个WordPress主题 (twitter.com/_/status/1588116681817133056)
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@graeme_fulton ↩️ they have this thing where you can see a local feed from the server you joined, and a ‘fedaverse’ feed showing different servers i think! then u can follow ppl from different servers. Confusing but the @indiewebcamp server is good, people who support indie open web (twitter.com/_/status/1588120456216838147)
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@nachtfunke I'm still figuring it all out, but I am available at @nachtfunke@indieweb.social, as well as @nachtfunke@tech.lgbt - and on cohost, also with @ nachtfunke Obviously, I also have a website. http://helloyes.dev - which I'll be focusing more on, in light of recent events. (twitter.com/_/status/1588131390801022977)
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[Murray] what is eleventy
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Loqi Eleventy is a JavaScript based static site generator that allows the user to select their own preferred template engine and theme, which in practice can and does enable use of microformats2 https://indieweb.org/Eleventy
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[Murray] Eleventy << Useful article on getting started with 11ty with a long further reading list: https://helloyes.dev/blog/2021/make-eleventy-the-next-thing-you-learn/
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Loqi ok, I added "Useful article on getting started with 11ty with a long further reading list: https://helloyes.dev/blog/2021/make-eleventy-the-next-thing-you-learn/" to the "See Also" section of /Eleventy https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84154&oldid=82760
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[Murray] what is responsive desgin
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "responsive desgin" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "responsive desgin is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Murray] what is responsive design
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "responsive design" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "responsive design is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Murray] hmm
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[Murray] responsive design is /responsive
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /responsive_design (+23) "prompted by [Murray] and redirect added by [Murray]" (view diff)
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[Murray] what is responsive design
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/responsive_design
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[Murray] _sigh_ what...
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barnaby looks like Loqi doesn’t follow multiple redirects when looking up definitions
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barnaby what is responsive design
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/responsive_design
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barnaby responsive design is /responsive_web_design
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barnaby *design. guess it requires manual editing now anyway
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[Murray] yeah, just trying to work out how to do that 😅
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /responsive_design (+11) "Changed redirect target from [[responsive]] to [[responsive web design]]" (view diff)
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barnaby what is responsive design
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Loqi Responsive web design is a method of adapting a website's display to a variety of screen sizes https://indieweb.org/responsive_design
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barnaby there we go
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[Murray] barnaby++
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Loqi barnaby has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (40 in all channels)
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[Murray] thanks 🙏
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[Murray] anyway, after all of that, I'm not sure how useful that wiki page is? I was expecting more detail there, but perhaps it's too far removed from things?
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[Murray] responsive design << A modern look at how CSS breakpoints can be used in fluid/responsive layouts: https://helloyes.dev/blog/2022/re:-css-breakpoints-every-developer-needs-to-know/
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Loqi ok, I added "A modern look at how CSS breakpoints can be used in fluid/responsive layouts: https://helloyes.dev/blog/2022/re:-css-breakpoints-every-developer-needs-to-know/" to a brand new "See Also" section of /responsive_web_design https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84157&oldid=13261
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loqi.me edited /responsive_web_design (+179) "[Murray] added "A modern look at how CSS breakpoints can be used in fluid/responsive layouts: https://helloyes.dev/blog/2022/re:-css-breakpoints-every-developer-needs-to-know/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-349) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /Template:next-hwc (+0) "update next date from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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@nachtfunke ↩️ Yes! https://indieweb.social/web/@nachtfunke - https://tech.lgbt/web/@nachtfunke - https://cohost.org/nachtfunke - it's all still very empty though. Freshly made. (twitter.com/_/status/1588138991219531776)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /authorship (-44) "/* Include authorship with h-feed markup */ fixed nested h-card markup (using all implied properties rather than a mixture of explicit and implied, which no longer works)" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /authorship (-45) "/* Include authorship without h-feed markup */ fixed nested h-card markup (using all implied properties rather than a mixture of explicit and implied, which no longer works)" (view diff)
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@Chronotope ↩️ Oh and uh, follow me on Mastodon! https://indieweb.social/@Chronotope (twitter.com/_/status/1588155585157120001)
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barnaby who runs https://sturdy-backbone.glitch.me/? I just get “CERT EXPIRED” errors when I try to use it
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barnaby looks like there have been enough updates to the mf2 parsing spec since we wrote a lot of the examples to warrant going through the whole wiki and correcting where necessary
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[Murray] Out of interest: does the Wiki send webmentions? When a new link is added to a Read More or Examples section (or manually inserted somewhere into the text), is the original page alerted?
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /h-feed (+9) "/* How to markup */ added href to nested implied author for URL property, as there would be no need for .p-author.h-card to be an <a> element otherwise" (view diff)
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barnaby not as far as I know
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@dee_bloo trying out mastadon again. @deebloo@mastodon.social I also have an account on indieweb? still figuring this out (twitter.com/_/status/1588166584870338560)
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@Shoq @dangillmor You wrote about Indieweb 8 yrs ago. Still using and satisfied with the tools? Do you think we can we ever put the silo genie back in the bottle, when most users don’t see themselves as creators? Has the movement evolved much since 2014? I can’t tell. (twitter.com/_/status/1588170377385377792)
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@bhdzllr ↩️ I'm still trying to find out as well. If I would send you a toot to "indieweb .social" you would not see it on "tech .lgbt" and "cohost .org". Is this correct? I think these are three separated inboxes? (twitter.com/_/status/1588169145408962561)
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@Rod_lopez Probando la nueva plataforma de #Mastodon https://indieweb.social/web/@Rod_Lopez (twitter.com/_/status/1588183217663721472)
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@pixenjoy Repensons les plateformes de promotion de vos contenus plutôt que de laisser des sites comme Medium se les accaparer https://pixenjoy.com/notes/creons-des-plateformes-de-promotion-de-contenu-indieweb-compatible (twitter.com/_/status/1588187573750472704)
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@Malakatonche ↩️ https://indieweb.social/@malakatonche (twitter.com/_/status/1588188178120380419)
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aaronpk re: official indieweb mastodon account... does it make sense to set up bridgy fed so we can have @indieweb@indieweb.org do stuff?
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@drupal8modules Minor update available for #drupal8 #module indieweb (8.x-1.20). More info: https://www.drupal.org/project/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1588189376374349825)
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barnaby it’d make sense if there was a feed at indieweb.org? but there isn’t currently
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aaronpk well there is at https://indieweb.org/this-week-in-the-indieweb
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barnaby I don’t think that’s discoverable from indieweb.org yet, but it’s a good candidate
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aaronpk oh huh it takes two clicks, i should add it to the main page
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aaronpk "follow news about the indieweb" -> /news -> /this-week
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (+60) "/* More Information */" (view diff)
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aaronpk could also post when things are added to https://news.indieweb.org/en
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aaronpk i suppose step 1 of any of these is making an h-feed that bridgy fed could pull from
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[schmarty]1 just as a nit, the bridgy fed name will be @indieweb.org@indieweb.org :}
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aaronpk oh there's no way to do custom usernamnes?
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barnaby automatically posting stuff which lands on news.indieweb.org might be a spam vector
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[schmarty]1 there's no way to do custom usernames.
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barnaby I wouldn’t have the main account automatically post stuff from there without approval
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aaronpk ooh another question, does bridgy fed support deletes?
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aaronpk as in, can it send out a delete activity if you want to delete a post?
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barnaby and the weekly newsletter includes things from news.indieweb already, right?
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[schmarty]1 aaronpk: seems like yes https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/30
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Loqi [swentel] #30 Allow posts to be deleted
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aaronpk huh why is that still open?
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[schmarty]1 snarfed++ for making all the bridgy projects so legible! i guessed i'd find that either in the FAQ on the fed.brid.gy page or in the GH issues linked from the same and... i did!
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Loqi snarfed has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (49 in all channels)
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[snarfed] aww welcome!
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[snarfed] aaronpk it's open because it's not implemented yet 😁
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aaronpk aha!
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barnaby it looks like it could be implemented by checking for a 410 source response in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/blob/main/webmention.py#L43 and short-circuiting to sending deletion activities rather than looking for a h-entry and converting it to AS, right?
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[snarfed] Sounds right
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[snarfed] After checking in the datastore to confirm that we did originally publish it
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barnaby ah yeah that’s an important step!
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barnaby I’m not really well equipped to work on this due to never having worked with AS2/AP or having a mastodon account to test it with, but I can at least drop these details in the issue in case someone else wants to pick it up
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[snarfed] Sure!
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[snarfed] aaronpk out of curiosity re deletes, were you thinking for newsletter updates? It does support Update activities
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aaronpk i was thinking if it posts stuff from indienews as they're posted there, it also needs a way to delete things
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aaronpk tho before we go there i'd want to make indienews posts require moderation, which they should at this point anyway
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aaronpk we've already had a few instances of accidental spam
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barnaby yeah and it’s definitely low-volume enough to manually moderate here, if we did something similar to Loqi’s current !rt command
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[snarfed] Ah ok!
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@Malakatonche Preparándome para la #DiásporaTuitera, algo. #TwitterTakeover. Aquítoy en #MastodonSocial https://indieweb.social/@malakatonche (twitter.com/_/status/1588202853071736832)
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[chrisaldrich] Mastodon << For potentially choosing an instance based on location, this map shows Mastodon servers that are are open for registration and serve specific regions or cities: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/mastodon-near-me_828094#3/38.00/-88.95; To add your server, see repo at https://github.com/jazmichaelking/mastodon-near-me
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Loqi ok, I added "For potentially choosing an instance based on location, this map shows Mastodon servers that are are open for registration and serve specific regions or cities: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/mastodon-near-me_828094#3/38.00/-88.95; To add your server, see repo at https://github.com/jazmichaelking/mastodon-near-me" to the "See Also" section of /Mastodon https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84164&oldid=84083
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@thomn0ttom My current profile is https://indieweb.social/@thom I'm shutting off crossposting to twitter. People are either going to migrate or not. I'm still going over there to follow some, but there's no reason for me to continue tweeting. (twitter.com/_/status/1588210968240136192)
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loqi.me created /popup (+19) "prompted by [tantek]1 and redirect added by [tantek]1" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /indieweb_pop-up (+19) "prompted by [tantek]1 and redirect added by [tantek]1" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2022-11-02-hwc-pacific (-181) "a little cleanup" (view diff)
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[tantek]1 aaronpk, nah to indieweb@. let's stick with the domain@domain convention to pacify the @-@ parsers
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[tantek]1 wow from a /Linktree ad I just got: "You are what you grow, but also what you cook"
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[tantek]1 lol "You are what you link, and where you link it"
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@Code644 ↩️ @sinandirlik@indieweb.social adresinde olduğun için mastodon aramalarında görünmüyorsun Tinan bey :)) (twitter.com/_/status/1588222265107382276)
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@tchambers ↩️ Yes and I run this one, so know it is solid and well peered to all the others: https://indieweb.social/invite/NzA7HPR5 (twitter.com/_/status/1588222118847733768)
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@libbyking I joined #mastodon, an alternative social network. It has decentralised servers, so when you join you have to pick a server. I picked this one, making me @libby@indieweb.social. Anyone else using it? https://indieweb.social/invite/NzA7HPR5 (twitter.com/_/status/1588237018026606592)
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gRegor barnaby, I'm confused about the /authorship updates to use only implied mf2? What wasn't parsing?
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barnaby the previously implied URL wasn’t being parsed due to explicit property classnames on children
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barnaby and the URL is vital for the authorship algo to work
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barnaby demo here https://gist.github.com/barnabywalters/d488448b55fbfb6ff3f543ed3d880d26
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gRegor Ahh
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gRegor Huh, I guess I haven't run across an a.h-card with nested properties, interesting. I wonder if we should be encouraging implied markup like that, vs. a wrapping .h-card instead.
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barnaby implied properties are great for the minimal case where you want a name, URL and photo, which for many h-cards is sufficient
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barnaby we just have to make the limitations and “upgrade path” to a full h-card clear and make sure out examples are up to date to avoid issues this
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gRegor Makes sense
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loqi.me edited /authorship_testing_tool (+129) "sknebel added "written by {{sknebel}}, so poke him if its broken or you want to borrow the (janky) code to inspire a rewrite" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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@CaesarSchinas If any of my followers here have moved to the Fediverse, find me at https://indieweb.social/@caesar If you don't understand the fediverse, learn more here: https://wordsmith.social/elilla/a-futuristic-mastodon-introduction-for-2021 (twitter.com/_/status/1588257026890600448)
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@gaborpihaj "I am exploring the #fediverse as part of my #indieweb journey and oh boy, it’s taking me down on memory lane. 90’s and even 2000’s were so different, I always had fond memories of its DIY aspect (self hosting FTW!) as at that time “big-tech”"… https://vdx.hu/s/Abnn (twitter.com/_/status/1588274828951298050)
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@gaborpihaj It’s been a while since I posted anything… well, I was busy with my #indieweb project: https://github.com/voidcontext/indieweb-tools. It’s far from complete, but it should syndicate this post to twitter and mastodon from by blog. … [http://vdx.hu s/d12g] (twitter.com/_/status/1588274830842920961)
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+90) "+ 2022-11-02-hwc-pacific" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/patrol () "marked revision 84161 of [[authorship]] patrolled" (view diff)
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[tantek]1 snarfed, I suppose there's a question of what would it take for indieweb.org to hook up to Bridgy Fed itself, or for that matter, backing up a step, send webmentions itself?
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[tantek]1 e.g. indieweb.org wiki updates could send webmentions to all the off-site links therein
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[tantek]1 chat.indieweb.org could send webmentions to every link someone posts
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[tantek]1 I think if we answer that sending webmentions question, then we can consider setting up Bridgy Fed with @/indieweb.org/@indieweb.org
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[tantek]1 or do we turn every page on indieweb.org into its own "profile" that sends a post for each update?
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[tantek]1 like @/POSSE/@indieweb.org
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[snarfed] right, we need to decide what we _want_ @indieweb.org@indieweb.org (or other accounts) to toot
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[tantek]1 @/this-week/@indieweb.org then makes sense in that context
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[snarfed] I don't know that there's an existing feed that we'd choose to mirror. eg https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/ is manual
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[snarfed] the dedicated accounts are interesting, but would take significantly more dev work
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aaronpk hah wiki edits as AP posts would be funny
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aaronpk eh i've already got that written
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[tantek]1 they either toot their whole page content when its updated (it's an h-entry after all), or if they have an h-feed, then they toot new entries when they show up
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/Nautilus might take a little work to update it for the latest PHP but it's pretty functional
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Loqi [aaronpk] Nautilus: Turn your website into an ActivityPub profile
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barnaby is there a comparison of bridgy fed vs nautilus somewhere?
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[snarfed] a bit of MediaWiki + AP discussion on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198363 but not a ton
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[snarfed] barnaby I doubt it
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aaronpk nautilus is basically micropub -> activitypub. bridgy fed is webmention+h-entry -> activitypub
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[tantek]1 aaronpk, I think having the wiki send webmentions upon page updates would still be interesting/useful. similarly for chat.indieweb
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[snarfed] oh interesting! Bridgy is now micropub -> AP too, but realistically just Mastodon
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aaronpk i think we talked about doing that for the chat permalinks at some point and decided it would be too noisy?
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[tantek]1 "too noisy" is called testing/training and finding the UX challenges of open webmentions receiving *before* an actual spam storm hits
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aaronpk true
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[tantek]1 what's a fairly innocuous sort of "red teaming" like that called? pink teaming?
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[snarfed] lol
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aaronpk ha
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[tantek]1 in both cases, (wiki & chat), the mentions would be "plain" mentions, and not replies or likes or whatever, so at least people could cluster them accordingly as a stopgap
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aaronpk right
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[snarfed] yeah I've obviously struggled w/the balance of "anyone can send a POST, therefore it's totally fine if I go do it for hundreds of millions of links" vs "don't be a bad citizen" 🤷
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aaronpk haha
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[tantek]1 [snarfed] right, and my point is, before we "do it" to someone else(s), let's do it to ourselves to see what happens / see what it feels like
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[snarfed] true!
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[tantek]1 seems more ethical
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[tantek]1 another circle out from this would be, combine Loqi's Twitter search with sending of webmentions for any/all tweets that say "indieweb" and have a link in them
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[snarfed] we can do it for chat with little to no code. h-feed => granary => telegraph or webmention.app
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[tantek]1 sort of a backfeed that no one signed up for
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[tantek]1 that would sorta happen twice since the chat log of those tweets from Loqi would also send a webmention
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[tantek]1 which would also be an interesting de-duping challenge for the receiver
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@JabaliLocazo ↩️ Todavía estoy viendo donde mi uno o si utilizo mastodon. Este server se ve culs: https://indieweb.social/about Tú tienes cuenta? (twitter.com/_/status/1588295384828235776)
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[tantek]1 [snarfed] if granary follows redirects when retrieving, then we have this already with the h-feed at https://chat.indieweb.org/
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[tantek]1 we have *the pieces* already
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aaronpk the chat logs are already pretty well set up for it. in fact it already sends a websub ping and publishes the line to the realtime viewers so it'd take just one more POST to have it send a webmention through telegraph
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[tantek]1 the neat thing about the chat logs is that if someone gets a webmention from them and it shows up on their website and they're like what is this? they can click on it to see the chat message in context and even join right there to ask in the channel what is going on 🙂
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@dabbindegva ↩️ Me uni a http://mastodon.social el 2018. Recien hoy me uni a http://pixelfed.social ese indieweb se ve nice (twitter.com/_/status/1588296892148056066)
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aaronpk almost :)
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aaronpk which is a good point that maybe i need to spruce up the chat permalink view a bit
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aaronpk cause it's not entirely clear how to get from here https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2022-11-03/1667515074322100 to the rest of the chat
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aaronpk (hint: it's the #)
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Loqi [aaronpk] which is a good point that maybe i need to spruce up the chat permalink view a bit
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@Shoq ↩️ Yeah, Indieweb feels like a great solution for a problem most people will never have until the Fediverse is large enough to spawn some new discovery engine for niche views and content. Or when governments get so odious, millions want to disperse across the web again.) (twitter.com/_/status/1588302303685124096)