#wordpress 2017-06-25

2017-06-25 UTC
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I swapped the popup for a rolldown
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[apatters] Hello WordPressers! I just learned about IndieWeb community last week and today I threw up a personal WP site and set up POSSE via Brid.gy. I threw together a stream-of-consciousness user test/UX commentary around the whole process from the POV of someone who's technical but is completely and utterly new to IndieWeb... would anyone like to read it? Where should I post it?
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[apatters] I've got the Bridgy Publish, Indieweb and Webmention plugins running.
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aaronpk Awesome!
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aaronpk If it's something you want to continue being edited and such, you could post it on the wiki!
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aaronpk Of course you could also post it on your website as well
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[apatters] Didn't see anything on the wiki similar to this. So I'll clean it up and post it to my own site for starters
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aaronpk What is getting started with wordpress?
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Loqi By using WordPress on your own domain, you are already a part of the IndieWeb. Below are some suggestions to help you get started with upgrading your WordPress site to support IndieWeb philosophies https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_with_WordPress
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ben_thatmustbeme Hi apatters, welcome!
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aaronpk maybe there?
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[apatters] http://aaroncommand.com/2017/06/25/a-stream-of-consciousness-review-of-the-indie-webs-onboarding-experience-from-a-ux-standpoint/
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Loqi [apatters] A stream-of-consciousness review of the Indie Web’s onboarding experience http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6f59d6d0e764122279116308b751511f?s=100&d=mm&r=g
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[apatters] That Gravatar keeps on sneaking into posts syndicated to FB too ?
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[apatters] ...With the amount of time I've spent looking through the Wiki I can't believe I missed that Getting Started page. I ended up launching my efforts from http://indieweb.org/WordPress
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ben_thatmustbeme [apatters]: maybe add a link to there from the WordPress page
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[apatters] Looks like there already is one, I just spaced out and missed it. Truth be told the /WordPress article gave me what I needed for my scenario, just picked one of the suggested themes and installed the Indieweb plugin and I was off to the races.
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tantek [apatters]: there's a "Get Started" link in the sidebar (which itself is pretty short)
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GWG I would like to read it wherever it is
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[apatters] I just posted to my own site for now, but can post it elsewhere if that's easier: http://aaroncommand.com/2017/06/25/a-stream-of-consciousness-review-of-the-indie-webs-onboarding-experience-from-a-ux-standpoint/
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Loqi [apatters] A stream-of-consciousness review of the Indie Web’s onboarding experience http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6f59d6d0e764122279116308b751511f?s=100&d=mm&r=g
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tantek [apatters]++ that is a GREAT post
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Loqi apatters has 1 karma
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tantek LOTS of great suggestions there
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[apatters] Thank you ?
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tantek !tell snarfed,cleverdevil see recently posted http://aaroncommand.com/2017/06/25/a-stream-of-consciousness-review-of-the-indie-webs-onboarding-experience-from-a-ux-standpoint/ a bunch of GREAT suggestions for improving WordPress IndieWeb onboarding (including with Bridgy etc.) LOTS of ideas for small & big hack projects there, quick improvments, longer term things.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [apatters] A stream-of-consciousness review of the Indie Web’s onboarding experience http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6f59d6d0e764122279116308b751511f?s=100&d=mm&r=g
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tantek also why is the avatar showing up in the summary
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[apatters] That I'm not sure about. It started happening after I set up either Gravatar or Bridgy. Let me look into it
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GWG I'll be reading that in a few moments.
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aaronpk it's marked as a "photo" in the post
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[apatters] I'd be happy to do writeups like that for any piece of the tech stack... I have done a lot of usability reviews and UI design over the years
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aaronpk ah i think the gravatar thinks it's inside an h-card but it's not
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[apatters] Let me look up what an h-card is again... lol
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aaronpk i'm not quite sure how to translate that into wordpress, maybe GWG knows :)
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GWG aaronpk: It doesn't exactly.
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GWG There is nothing built in that mirrors an h-card. It's all extra
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[apatters] The Gravatar is sneaking into summaries as well as posts that get syndicated to Facebook. I haven't set up anything related to h-cards yet. This is a very fresh install of WP, Independent Publisher, and 3 plugins: Indieweb, Bridgy, and Webmention
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GWG [apatters]: Re your comments, I wish WordPress had any dependency management. It doesn't.
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GWG People have built some in, but nothing official.
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GWG So having one plugin install another is an issue across the board.
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[miklb] I just opened an issue on the subject nonetheless. https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/issues/68
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[miklb] Also, good morning!!
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Loqi [miklb] #68 Auto-Install Base Plugins
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GWG But, a lot of the more prominent button stuff we should be doing and were discussing this morning
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GWG [miklb]: Hello
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GWG [miklb]: I want to talk to snarfed about turning the Bridgy Publish plugin into a Bridgy plugin. Add in registration and some other UI stuff, if he'll help figure out how.
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[miklb] goes back to rebuilding his local webserver so as to maybe build something new today
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GWG Also....new version of Semantic Linkbacks.
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GWG Been looking forward to that
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[miklb] did that last test get sorted?
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GWG [miklb]: Yes, finally. Thank to @kraftbj. He was able to highlight what I was missing and I fixed it
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[miklb] excellent
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[apatters] @GWG: What is the reasoning for having so many plugins?
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GWG [apatters]: The Indieweb isn't an all or nothing proposition. Each one is a feature.
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GWG We've started to move toward consolidation of some that are basically part of the same feature, but some are different things. Also, different developers
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GWG For example, I write Post Kinds and Syndication Links.
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[miklb] apatters my take is that the plugins are mostly individuals who wrote the plugins to solve a personal itch/missing piece, not started from scratch as community plugins with the same goal as we have now of. And as GWG points out, it’s not a one size fits all.
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GWG Another person writes Webmentions and its companion plugin, Semantic Linkbacks. Which I've been advocating to merge once we get some of the hacky bits less hacky.
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GWG Bridgy Publish is a plugin for a specific service you may or may not want to use.
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GWG The onboarding needs to be better, but I'm not sure the solution is the Jetpack philosophy of putting a bunch on unrelated but often useful things in one package.
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[miklb] inevitably would have the converse, “why does the IndieWeb plugin install all of these plugins that I don’t want or need”
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GWG Yesterday, the great idea was a 'wizard' type piece of the Indieweb plugin that asks you questions and either installs, configures, or recommends...some combination of tose
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GWG those
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[miklb] another part of the equation is what is and isn’t allowed in the wp.org plugin/theme repos as to what & how they install/require
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[apatters] @GWG miklb I see. Perhaps onboarding could be simplified if certain core components were consolidated into a single plugin with feature toggles. So the user installs something and the functionality is there, but not everything is turned on until they say they want to enable it.
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[apatters] Jetpack probably goes too far in terms of aggregating random "stuff a blogger might find useful." But pieces of the indie web platform actually depend on each other e.g. Bridgy needing Webmention.
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[apatters] So that implies to me that if you're installing Bridgy Publish, Webmention really ought to be there as a library or something that it can make use of.
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[apatters] Just some thoughts
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GWG [apatters]: WordPress doesn't do libraries so well, but I agree it would be nice. The next plan I think is to replace the Getting Started page with something more helpful. Then we'll go on from there
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GWG [apatters]: Can we call on you to test it if that happens?
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[apatters] Of course!
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GWG What belongs in the Indieweb plugin is also a debate
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GWG I write an Indieweb friendly plugin called Simple Location, for adding location support to posts. Indieweb people might want that..but is it an Indieweb plugin?
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GWG Maybe we need to define that somewhere in the plugin...criteria
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[apatters] I think in an ideal world there wouldn't be an Indieweb anymore, there'd just be a Web built on stuff that is not centralized and owned by some megacorp. So if the Indieweb plugin's main purpose is just to linking people to other plugins, why not link to any plugin which helps achieve that goal?
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[apatters] Maybe I've been on the business side too long, but to me Indieweb is more of a position statement, and then there is a tech stack you want people to adopt because they identify with that statement
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GWG I also am a bit self conscious about having so many projects of mine in the plugin
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[apatters] That seems like something to be proud of ?
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GWG [apatters]: You can't sing four part harmony alone. Well...not as well as with 4 people
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[miklb] GWG what should I work on today?
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GWG [miklb]: What do you want to work on?
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[miklb] I had thought about reacji
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[miklb] but I’d like to work on something more community related
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[apatters] https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F600FV9RU/20170625_223744-1.jpg?pub_secret=cee7502688&name=20170625_223744-1.jpg A rough idea for an updated Getting Started page. Eliminates the Extensions page. Top section explains Indie Web in 1 paragraph for total newbies. The page lists plugins with an Install/Activate/Deactivate button depending on their state. Plugins with config options get a Configure button too once installed. Requi
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[apatters] first and strongly demarcated as such. "Semantic Themes" section has a little UA text which explains that these are optional, but they'll give you a better experience. The last section is a list of links to resources for learning more about the Indie Web, participating in camps etc.
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[miklb] maybe I’ll just get indiewp site up. I’d like to test the mf2 plugin with a core theme anyway, see if there’s anything missing that can be improved.
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[miklb] apatters I think the trick is going to be to have something that still looks like a unified WordPress experience.
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[apatters] Matching the WordPress design language, basically?
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GWG Yes
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GWG That is the challenge
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[miklb] that was part of the decision to switch the plugin loader UI, to better be inline with the current admin UI for installing plugins.
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[miklb] at least that was my thinking in suggesting the switch.
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GWG The other one was a nuisance
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GWG It was designed more for theme dependency
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GWG We could start doing PRs the one we're using now.
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[miklb] GWG upstream?
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GWG Why not?
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[miklb] yes, I agree, just confirming that’s what you meant. I suggest as much in the issue I opened about potentially auto-installing a few of the plugins.
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[apatters] WP's plugin loader is OK, but I think the Getting Started screen as is presents an onboarding barrier - it's too much to read. If the plugins can be presented immediately on that page with a little less exposition, more people will install them. Also dlineating between plugins you have to install versus ones that are optional could help with the dependencies issue -- if it's not easy to solve in code, if you can just get everyone to ins
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[apatters] off the bat, you can at least reduce the frequency of the problem.
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[apatters] The plugin loader handles the install/activate process very well. Can't recall what it does about configuration
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[chrisaldrich] apatters I suspect you're using the uf2 plugin or your theme errantly adds u-photo to your (gr)avatar. When you syndicate via Bridgy Publish it pulls in the u-photo https://brid.gy/about#microformats
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[apatters] chrisaldrich Not using uf2, but I pulled the latest version of Independent Publisher off of Github. Maybe it has a bug?
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[chrisaldrich] Looks like it actually has u-photo on your gravatar twice!
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[chrisaldrich] I think there may be one other piece that puts u-photo onto a gravatar, let me think...
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[chrisaldrich] It looks like it's not the theme...
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[apatters] Installed plugins:
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[apatters] Bridgey Publish
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[apatters] IndieWeb
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[apatters] Post Kinds
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[apatters] Semantic-Linkbacks
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[apatters] Webmentions
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[chrisaldrich] GWG: Does Indieweb plugin add a u-photo to the gravatar automatically?
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: No. That's Semantic Linkbacks.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Actually, wait...now WordPress Microformats 2 does it too
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GWG But I thought I put an array_unique on there
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GWG Maybe thatwas the new one
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[chrisaldrich] gravatars with u-photo on them will force bridgy publish to syndicate that as a photo
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[chrisaldrich] otherwise bridgy should parse out h-cards and not include the nested u-photo from them as they're not part of the post.
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[apatters] I haven't done anything to create an h-card yet, btw, unless one of these plugins did it for me automatically
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GWG Well, they should be wrapped in something else
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[apatters] (Or the theme did)
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GWG That's probably the issue.
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GWG Any gravatar should be in an h-card
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[miklb] so theme issue?
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[chrisaldrich] apatters are you using the WordPress Microformats 2 plugin (previously named uf2...)?
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[miklb] wasn’t listed above
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[apatters] Nope
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[chrisaldrich] I keep forgetting they've been moved and renamed in the past week and still call them by their old names.
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[miklb] chrisaldrich what’s better, is that uf2 is still part of the repo name. I believe due to some rules with the wp.org repo
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[chrisaldrich] Then, it's likely happening in Semantic linkbacks
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: It should not do anything if you have a theme that declared microformats2 support. That is the way it is designed
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: It is. I suppose we need to figure out how to add more of a conditional with that feature.
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[chrisaldrich] Some themes throw a gravatar into the_content (usually at the bottom) and a u-photo is being put on it programmatically without adding the requisite h-card details so that bridgy misses it when syndicated via bridgy publish.
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[chrisaldrich] I'm pretty sure the 2016 theme does this too.
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[apatters] I just deactivated Semantic Linkbacks, and the bug still repro's
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[miklb] well, I’m going to set up 2015 with mf2 plugin today and see what breaks.
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[chrisaldrich] any cacheing?
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[apatters] Post syndicates to FB and the thumbnail is still there. I'm not using any type of caching
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[apatters] Let me see if I can switch themes without any hiccups
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[apatters] Switching to 2017 fixes the issue. So probably a bug in Independent Publisher.
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GWG [apatters]: I can have a look. I helped raamdev with the MF2
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[apatters] @GWG: Thanks! Let me know if I can do anything to help
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GWG [apatters]: Will do
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[apatters] @GWG Also when using Independent Publisher, if I make a post that contains an image and syndicate to FB with Bridgey, the image doesn't make it to FB.
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GWG [apatters]: Complicated problem, alas
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dougbeal https://etherpad.indieweb.org/indieweb-wordpress
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[miklb] is there another streaming session for that?
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[miklb] apatters I wrote a small blog post about the syndicating images https://miklb.com/microformats2-wordpress-and-featured-images-classes/
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Loqi [Michael Bishop] Microformats2, WordPress and Featured Images Classes
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[miklb] I’ve looked into ways to add a UI to the insert image screen to add the class if not a featured image. When I do, I think it would make a good addition to the core indieweb plugin
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[apatters] miklb Thanks, I will read this
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[miklb] GWG I know we discussed this previously, but I don’t remember, have you started on adding the checkin post kind? Otherwise, I’m going to tackle that.
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[miklb] oh, I didn’t realize it basically had it already there, just hidden. Wondering what else besides a view template is needed now.
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[miklb] I added a check for micropub property…
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GWG [miklb]: I'm still working on the Simple Location enhancements before I work on checkin. The Kind is there, but I need to build the properties.
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[miklb] so you are suggesting I should wait?
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[miklb] I see a lot of properties from micropub now…
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[miklb] never mind, I think I need a break from IW for the rest of the day.
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GWG [miklb]: You can do a template to display the properties and I can do a UI later
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GWG Simple solution
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GWG But after the Indiewebifying your site, I may do some UI improvements.
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[miklb] I look at it later this week. Thanks.
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[miklb] but this does highlight the problem with all of the IW WP plugins mostly being disparate elements in personal repos. No way to really know what roadmaps are and how to contribute. Gut feeling is just to maintain forks and scratch my own itches. </rant>
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GWG [miklb]: I put my list of itches in the Issue section, to be honest
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[miklb] ok
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[pfefferle] autodeployments for the IndieWeb plugin is now also working ? tags will be synced with WordPress.org repo!
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[miklb] pfefferle++
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Loqi pfefferle has 1 karma in this channel (27 overall)
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GWG [pfefferle]: We did a session earlier. Lots of feedback on what confuses people.
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GWG In all plugins.
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[pfefferle] ok... how many new contributors have you recruited? ?
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GWG [pfefferle]: 0
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GWG Although plenty of user experience people
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[pfefferle] oh... but UX and UI is not my main focus atm.
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[pfefferle] we still have so much to do with for example sem-linkbacks... ?
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[pfefferle] ...and I read some posts about known and mastodon... if some of you are interest in mastodon/status.net/gnu.social and WordPress https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-ostatus
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Loqi [pfefferle] wordpress-ostatus: An OStatus plugin for WordPress
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Did you get my message?
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[chrisaldrich] GWG yes. I'm out at the moment but hope to catch up and take a look at it tonight.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: More to come.
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[chrisaldrich] I've only caught snippets this weekend, but I'm even more depressed that I couldn't be there based on the tidbits I've seen. Sounds like it's been a roaring success.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: So am I
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[chrisaldrich] I also have 10 new major itches and with the houses/move over the next month + it's going to be difficult...