#indiewebcamp 2016-04-26

2016-04-26 UTC
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sknebel tantek: for a privacy law discussion I feel one of the guests that are professional web developers might be a better pick, since they should have more hands-on experience with what has to be done and what is irrelevant. I'd have a very theoretical perspective
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sknebel hm, is there a writeup/notes for the Silo / Friends / Privacy session that happened in Nuremberg somewhere? Wiki doesn't link anything
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sknebel aaronpk: interestingly, red-links on the wiki *are* red, after I've clicked them
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tantek it's kind of like a puzzle hunt
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sknebel ... and it is 2 am again. good night everybody!
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Loqi night
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tantek gute nacht
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "SimplePie 1.4" https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-04-26-SimplePie_14
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@miklb Update to SimplePie with support for #indieweb microformats https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-04-26-SimplePie_14 (twitter.com/_/status/724759243149058048)
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GWG I think I just broke something
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tantek GWG, you ok?
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GWG Yes
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GWG I think I broke code
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GWG Not myself
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tantek got the previous version to compare to?
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GWG Yes
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@malcolmblaney RT @miklb Update to SimplePie with support for #indieweb microformats https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-04-26-SimplePie_14 (twitter.com/_/status/724771207975817217)
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GWG But my gutting of this code was so extensive I'm not sure where I failed.
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GWG Okay. Fixed for now.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Jeanie Aldrich" by Jeanie Aldrich http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30386
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aaronpk good evening
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GWG Good evening
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+192) "/* Itches */ move some things to completed" (view diff)
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aaronpk nice
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+58) "/* Wordpress Development */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (-9) "/* Working On */" (view diff)
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aaronpk kylewm: are you doing full comment threads??
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kylewm Aaronpk, haha no, what?
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aaronpk how did all these replies get there? https://kylewm.com/2016/04/this-is-test-to-see-how-many-times-monocle-fetches
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Loqi [Kyle Mahan] This is test to see how many times Monocle fetches my site for a single PuSH ping
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aaronpk check out the URL I replied to here https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/25/2/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] 16 times fetching your feed? It does fetch each post in the feed individually which is normal.
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gRegorLove mblaney++ for SimplePie with mf2 support!
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Loqi mblaney has 11 karma
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aaronpk that's awesome
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aaronpk Having finally given myself a way to reply and like posts from my "reader" (IRC), I am still amazed at how important it is to have a way to reply inline. I'm suddenly replying to way more things because it's so much easier now.
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aaronpk well that almost worked too well
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aaronpk that was me POSSEing to IRC
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/25/14/reader
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gregorlove.com edited /SimplePie (+190) "Note v1.4 h-feed support in summary, history section" (view diff)
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Having finally given myself a way to reply and like posts from my "reader" (IRC), I am still amazed at how important it is to have a way to reply inline. I'm suddenly replying to way more things because it's so much easier now....
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gRegorLove Whoa
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aaronpk i'm connected to IRC through a bouncer, so my POSSE code connects to the bouncer and then it can talk in IRC as me
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miklb that's some voodoo right there :-)
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kylewm aaronpk: the comment thread is just regular old salmentions right?
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aaronpk oh is that what's happening??
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aaronpk i want that :P
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kylewm I think, I don't know why they're out of order though
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gRegorLove Test-suite PR for php-mf2: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/95
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GWG I'm looking at acegiak's salmentions code.
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gRegorLove https://twitter.com/0x6D6172696F/status/724631008407068673
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@0x6D6172696F Get ready to update your WordPress installations soon. Because 4.5 and below all have XSS via GET, unauthenticated. More info soon. (twitter.com/_/status/724631008407068673)
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aaronpk "Sorry, no logo, no campaign." lolol
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gRegorLove In a parsed 'html' value, if the source has & it should remain &, correct?
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[kevinmarks] We were debating that in python
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[kevinmarks] It should preserve & and < and > definitely - things like &mdash; less clear.
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gRegorLove https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/syntax.html##Replace+any+occurrence+of+the+%22&%22 This seems unclear to me, unless "excluding character references" is implied.
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@gm_kou RT @aaronpk Awesome! The IANA link rel registry now includes the @W3C "webmention"! http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml (twitter.com/_/status/724818164756918273)
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gRegorLove Otherwise you'd end up with &amp;amp;
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gRegorLove I think &, <, > in p- values makes sense. Unsure in the e-content 'html' value
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gRegorLove The context for this is minor, really, though. The micrfroformats/tests/ suite has an & in the expected output where php-mf2 parses &amp; The latter is what's in the source HTML
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mblaney woot! all webmention.rocks test passed!
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Loqi :D
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mblaney (can't let kylewm have all the fun! :-P)
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kylewm mblaney++!
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Loqi mblaney has 12 karma
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mblaney kylewm thanks for the nerd snipe... probably not what I should've been working on today.
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gRegorLove Woo, passing tests 1-21
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mblaney btw I went back and looked for some tombestone discussion, found some here: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-17
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GWG !tell acegiak Looked at your salmentions code. I think it doesn't quite fit where you put it. Might play with it a bit.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove Hm, update test 1, step 3 says the order is not significant, but I got "test_not_started It looks like you sent a Webmention to the wrong page. To start this test, send a Webmention to the https://webmention.rocks/update/1 page first"
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Loqi [Webmention Rocks!] Update Test #1
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gRegorLove Dang http/https issue again.
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kylewm mblaney: aw yeah easy to get hooked in. I was way too distracted at hwc because of that
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mblaney yes I told myself 5 minutes worth of changes would make them happen :-)
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@martinlindner @professorbunsen ganz generell redet ja derzeit so gut wie niemand mehr vom #web. (außer versprengte #indieweb-minorität.) bezeichnend. (twitter.com/_/status/724844906204790785)
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[kevinmarks] Test suites as nerd sniping Gamification
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Loqi [indieweb] "I do not get it; RSS is not dead (on the contrary, new feeds pop up every day). There are lots of applications both web" by Tino Kremer https://tinokremer.nl/2016/i-do-not-get-it-rss-is-not-dead-on
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@dkreuz Updating my site to gain #IndieWeb Level 2.1 was quite easy http://indiewebify.me/ (twitter.com/_/status/724878379854471169)
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dym.cx edited /short-domains (+175) "/* Criticisms */ advocating for using the short-url-domain-name as a main one" (view diff)
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dym.cx edited /silo.pub (+124) "+History (Feverdream)" (view diff)
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dym.cx moved /Feverdream to /Silo.pub "renamed on release"
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dym.cx edited /Silo.pub (+129) "Undo revision 27148 by [[Special:Contributions/Dym.cx|Dym.cx]] ([[User talk:Dym.cx|talk]])" (view diff)
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dym_cx i dont know how wiki move works
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dym.cx edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+146) "+ 2016: http://vimeo.com/157297541" (view diff)
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sknebel dym_cx: seems like you accidentially created both Silo.pub and silo.pub pages (wiki article names are case sensitive)
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GWG Morning
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dym_cx sknebel: how do i make redirects in wiki?
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sknebel uhm
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sknebel what is the the wiki redirect syntax?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the wiki redirect syntax" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Jo
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sknebel to bad, one second
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dym_cx found it: #REDIRECT [[silo.pub]]
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@jgarber Homebrew Website Club DC is looking for a new venue. Know of a space for 5-ish folks to meet every other week to hack on projects? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/724948910091964416)
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sknebel the wiki redirect syntax is replace the page content with #REDIRECT [[target-page]]
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sknebel "the wiki redirect syntax" is replace the page content with #REDIRECT [[target-page]]
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dym_cx why is title of https://indiewebcamp.com/silo.pub is "Silo.pub" (upper-case S)
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sknebel because they are auto-capitalized :/
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sknebel yes, very logical
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dym_cx it's in css :facepalm:
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prtksxna Might be a mediawiki thing too
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sknebel oh, css explains why it is Silo.Pub (both capital) for me ;)
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kbs http://dangrover.com/blog/2016/04/20/bots-wont-replace-apps.html - interesting read; kept wondering about how his "inbox is the new home screen" section could work with various indieweb mechanisms to push/pull content
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@jkphl Excited to announce that I will run a 1-day @indiewebcamp-ish event on June 22nd as part of the @openSUSE conf! https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16 (twitter.com/_/status/724953524006703110)
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@kingkool68 RT @jgarber Homebrew Website Club DC is looking for a new venue. Know of a space for 5-ish folks to meet every other week to hack on projects? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/724950298763087873)
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@olivermakes RT @jgarber Homebrew Website Club DC is looking for a new venue. Know of a space for 5-ish folks to meet every other week to hack on projects? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/724955155385438208)
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@jkphl Attending the conference — and the #indieweb hack day — is completely free. Details to be published soon. +@openSUSE (twitter.com/_/status/724954317652934659)
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dym_cx kbs: this is very misleading: http://dangrover.com/img/content/conversational-ui/MSPizzaBot.png – dictation is still faster than scrolling+taping links in webpages
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kbs dym_cx: Oh I see, that's an interesting thought. The better comparison would be to literally look at it as a verbal conversation
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kbs It strikes me, that (at least till now) conversations (verbal or keyboard-typed) with bots tend to be less precise (or need knowing a specific syntax) for arbitrary interactions
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dym_cx yes, but the key usecase it to do routinely easy tasks super fast
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kbs fwiw, I found his article to somewhat jump around from a rant about conversational UIs; to an orthogonal idea around fully embracing "streaming" rather than apps on mobile - that was an intriguing idea to me
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kbs Kevin Kelly also had a point of view on this a few years back - he called it "flowing"; and argued that streams are forming the new media platform. http://www.wired.com/2011/06/kevin-kellys-internet-words/
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Loqi Skip Article Header. Skip to: Start of Article.
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kbs speaking of interacting with bots ... :-)
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dym_cx loqi: what is meta
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dym_cx what is meta
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "meta" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Jp
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cweiske what is recursion?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/recursion
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cweiske.de edited /recursion (+31) (view diff)
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dym_cx more of an irony than recursion
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cweiske what is recursion?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/recursion
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cweiske :/
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dym.cx created /Recursion (+29) "Created page with "<dfn>What is Recursion?</dfn>"" (view diff)
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dym_cx try uppercase R
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cweiske what is recursion?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Recursion
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cweiske I guess loqi wants the dfn on the first line
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Loqi who, me?
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dym_cx what is Recursion?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Recursion
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dym_cx what is Recursion?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Recursion
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dym_cx nvm
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kbs :-)
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cweiske.de edited /Recursion (+31) (view diff)
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cweiske what is Recursion?
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Loqi What is Recursion? https://indiewebcamp.com/Recursion
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cweiske what is recursion?
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Loqi What is Recursion? https://indiewebcamp.com/Recursion
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cweiske mission accomplished.
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@Inkwater_Masha 5 Different Ways to Brand Book Covers for Series http://www.rockingbookcovers.com/book-cover-design/different-ways-to-brand-book-covers-for-series/?platform=hootsuite #coverdesign #selfpub #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/724967632261287936)
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dym_cx meta is mo’ <meta>, mo’ problems
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GWG petermolnar: Got a minute?
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petermolnar yep
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dym.cx created /meta (+93) "prompted by dym_cx https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-26/line/1461680070391" (view diff)
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GWG petermolnar: I wanted to talk about WordPress and Webmentions. I'm still working on a new version of the Webmentions plugin for pfefferle's review.
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petermolnar how can I help?
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GWG I studied your plugin on the matter.
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GWG I wanted to have the Webmentions plugin designed in a way it could be considered for Core someday
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petermolnar the additional table I have is definitely a blocker for core adoptation; I'm interested in what you have in your mind
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GWG petermolnar: That is another thing.
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GWG Well, I had the idea of a custom comment status that would be pending verification.
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GWG So, basically, store it in the comment table itself
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petermolnar I wanted to do that originally, but right now, there is no way to exclude the akismet check if askismet is present and on, which became a blocker for me
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GWG Which is a core ticket issue.
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GWG But, the existing webmention handler is synchronous.
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GWG The one that is in the repository.
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GWG A lot of the changes I made would not only allow it to be asynchronous...but it could even be paired with a service worker in the background.
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petermolnar what kind of service worker?
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GWG A program that would verify webmentions in the background.
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GWG Optionally.
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petermolnar external, non-wordpress?
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GWG Yes, the same way you can use the built-in object cache, or outsource it to memcache
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petermolnar interesting idea, but it could become useful
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GWG I wanted to address all the complaints about pingbacks.
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@RikMende Hey @PatrickMeier long time subscriber of your blog & I was just thinking how a nice redesign would make it shine + implement #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/724974809759756288)
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GWG One is system resources.
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GWG And I like the idea of a 'drop-in' replacement.
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GWG But that doesn't remove the need for a built-in one.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Monocle is Offline" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/26/3/monocle
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GWG petermolnar: On the display side, do you have any thoughts?
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petermolnar I present them as standard comments, thought they have the comment type according to the microformat (reply, repost, like, or plain webmention)
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petermolnar I'd just add them as they are
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petermolnar but there is one thing
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petermolnar which is not part of my plugin yet
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GWG What do you think of: The WordPress Way vs the Semantic Linkbacks Way, vs alternatives.
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petermolnar I'm not familiar with this
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GWG WordPress - [...]
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GWG Semantic Linkbacks: Peter Molnar mentioned this article....
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petermolnar the additional thing: make it possible to webmention reply with a comment to an incoming comment
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petermolnar oh
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petermolnar right, that semantic linkbacks
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petermolnar I understand the reasons for separating it, but I think it's not necessary; since webmentions don't really make sense without it, it shouldn't be a different plugin
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GWG I'm not talking about the design. Although I agree and disagree. I think kylewm said it best. It should be independent pieces in the same plugin.
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GWG I was talking about the display.
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GWG How it shows up by default without theme support
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petermolnar I never used the default theme, so to be honest, I have no idea how it any of them looks be default. I will check it and come back to answer this later.
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petermolnar on the reply-with-comment: currently there is not standalone template and permalink for a single comment in wordpress, which is a problem. So when you post, someone replies, and instead of starting a new thread with a new post, replying with a comment to that incoming comment, which does send a webmention, should be an option in my opinion.
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petermolnar I have this, but it's bundled with my theme, and I'm yet to figure out how to split it
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Loqi [indieweb] "I can concur with the "slow burn" philosophy, though you are correct. Some things are really missing to make it a mature platform.
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GWG petermolnar: Core Ticket? I support the one for Comment Permalinks.
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kbs I just realized aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2015/08/29/8/why-i-live-in-irc is more or less implementing dan grover's idea via weechat + irc channels, heh
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Why I Live in IRC
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aaronpk Okay fine I'll read that article
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kbs haha :-) more just complimenting your insight
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[kevinmarks] Which article?
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Loqi rofl
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kbs http://dangrover.com/blog/2016/04/20/bots-wont-replace-apps.html
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kbs specifically the last section on embracing an inbox as the gateway on mobile
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[kevinmarks] Did you see http://www.theawl.com/2016/04/o-reader-my-reader
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[kevinmarks] That reinforces my comments that bots done wrong are just IVR, and the key new value is creating rich responses you can click on
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[kevinmarks] Links being the minimal version of that, embedded html the richer one
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kbs yes - I saw your comments on the fad for bots in the weblog from a few days back :) fwiw, he seems to be making a few somewhat orthogonal points in his post. a) as you say, it's rich responses rather than bots b) why not just have the metaphor entirely be a stream; where individual entries are rich, but have a consistent way to manage notifications across sources
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aaronpk Since writing that post , I've started using a web interface for wee chat which has pretty much solved the mobile problem for me
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GWG aaronpk: Which one?
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aaronpk good, because I can follow and chat on mobile easier now. Bad because now I have one less reason to switch away from IRC
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aaronpk GWG: glowing-bear
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GWG aaronpk: Ditto
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kbs aaronpk: oh, that's interesting. At a basic level, found it intruiging that you've independently found the 'make everything a consistent form of notification' to work for you
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kbs s/notification/rich chat message ... not sure what the right phrase here is
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Loqi kbs meant to say: aaronpk: oh, that's interesting. At a basic level, found it intruiging that you've independently found the 'make everything a consistent form of rich chat message ... not sure what the right phrase here is' to work for you
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kylewm what is myfreeweb's micropub client?
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aaronpk micro-panel
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aaronpk https://github.com/myfreeweb/micro-panel
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kylewm oh, not running on a public url?
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aaronpk not sure
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kylewm oh wow, it's serverless!
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aaronpk yeah, kinda neat!
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@kevinmarks #iiw #indieweb (@ IIW XXII in Mountain View, Calif) https://www.swarmapp.com/c/e1OvVHdr1mg (twitter.com/_/status/724992025720971264)
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kylewm myfreeweb++ micro-panel is awesome! i did not expect it to overlay my site with an admin view, that is amazing
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Loqi myfreeweb has 15 karma
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kylewm if anyone else tries it, it either needs to be installed on your own site (so that it doesn't have to make cross-origin requests) or you have to do CORS stuff
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kylewm and it only looks in HTTP Link headers, not in the HTML body for authorzation_endpoint et al
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gRegorLove What is micro-panel?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "micro-panel" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Jq
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[emmak] kylewm: what did you need to run to install/build it? I see npm, bower and broccoli, but its not really clear
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kylewm emmak: I ran npm install bower to get bower, then node_modules/.bin/bower install, and that was it
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@kevinmarks #iiw @Kim_Cameron: at the time the world of identity was fragmented and talking on a blog helped have a conversation in public #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/725000206400544772)
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aaronpk kylewm: [emmak]: I just copied the HTML to my server and ran it. I didn't install it from source.
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tantek what is npm?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/npm
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tantek huh
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tantek what is bower?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bower" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Jr
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tantek what is broccoli?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "broccoli" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Js
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kylewm.com edited /npm (+86) (view diff)
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kylewm what is npm?
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Loqi npm is the Node package manager (although the npm project maintains it is not an acronym) and is can be used to manage javascript package for any type of javascript project (not limited to node.js or server-side js) https://indiewebcamp.com/npm
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kylewm doh, is an
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kylewm (I definitely don't know the difference between bower, gulp, broccoli)
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KevinMarks they're in a contest for the shortest thing you can type at the commandline to create the maximum number of files on disk
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kylewm KevinMarks++ 1000
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Loqi KevinMarks has 211 karma
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[emmak] hmm... micro-panel login is not working for me
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aaronpk [emmak]: oh that reminds me I had to also add &response_type=code to the login URL
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aaronpk (depends on how strict your OAuth server is)
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kylewm emmak: it wants HTTP Link headers, like Link <https://indieauth.com/auth>; rel="authorization_endpoint" .... <link rel>'s don't work
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kylewm aaronpk: out of curiosity, why are the actions uppercase here http://micropub.net/draft/socialpub/#update
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aaronpk those are activitystreams terms
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kylewm huh, thought AS was all camelCase
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kylewm it's weird when one person in a pair implements salmentions
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aaronpk you're talking about me again aren't you :P
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kylewm if you have a converstaion A1-B1-A2-B2 then A1 gets the first three comments
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kylewm aaronpk: i was talking about Tino actually! but i think the samem thing happened with us
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kylewm I mean, A1 gets the first two comments B1 and A2, but not B2
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kylewm no nevermind, I don't get it, it shouldn't work at all with only one person implmenting salmentions
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GWG I still have to figure out how to implement salmentions.
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gRegorLove Very carefully
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GWG gRegorLove: It's a design problem.
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GWG acegiak put salmentions into Semantic Linkbacks. But they are inside the code used to generate a comment. I think that is a bit confusing and want to break it out, which requires a few structural changes.
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GWG But I'm making structural changes anyway for other reasons, like making snarfed happier.
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snarfed enjoys being happy
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snarfed heh. https://twitter.com/antevens/status/724645752849321984
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@antevens -> Describe your perfect date. ...... <- YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS.XXXXXX (twitter.com/_/status/724645752849321984)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by James McPherson" by James McPherson http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30395
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Marlene Detweiler Flynn" by Marlene Detweiler Flynn http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30391
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Alice Miller" by Alice Miller http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30397
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Ralph Aldrich" by Ralph Aldrich http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30393
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Karen Ely" by Karen Ely http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30398
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Dave Harris" by Dave Harris http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30394
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Emily Marks Kirshenbaum" by Emily Marks Kirshenbaum http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30396
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Ben Paul" by Ben Paul http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30390
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Tom Fraites" by Tom Fraites http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30392
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Kimberley Berdy Gallmeyer" by Kimberley Berdy Gallmeyer http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30389
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gRegorLove snarfed1: https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/425734652892958720
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@mcclure111 Please note: Per ISO ISO 8601 if it is not formatted like 1994-11-05T08:15:30-05:00 it is not a date, it is just "hanging out" (twitter.com/_/status/425734652892958720)
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snarfed1 :D
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GWG snarfed: It's the notification issue
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snarfed GWG: aha
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GWG snarfed: I could use feedback at some point if you are willing.
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GWG I know WordPress isn't your area of expertise, but I value your opinions.
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snarfed GWG: sure! happy to look at the new rendered emails if you have them...?
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GWG snarfed: It was more design in general.
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GWG The way I'm solving the email problem is moving the enhancement before the email is generated, as opposed to after(as it is now).
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GWG pfefferle had to revert that change in the past because it messed up something else, which I'm fixing.
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snarfed GWG: so...code design? i don't really know a lot of the wordpress conventions, so you'll probably want a wordpress person to opine on the code style
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snarfed but still happy to look
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GWG snarfed: Appreciate it. Will send something when I'm further along with an explanation. You may have an idea I didn't.
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snarfed GWG: sure!
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GWG snarfed: You know WordPress uses actions and filters though.
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snarfed sure
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GWG snarfed: The current version triggers on an action. I'm switching it to run through a filter. Except WordPress only has a new comment filter, not an edit comment filter.
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GWG So I added an edit webmention filter to the webmentions plugin to address
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GWG As no one edits pingbacks or trackbacks anyway
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snarfed ok
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snarfed honestly you'll be better served by someone who's familiar with all this. i'm mostly not.
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snarfed but i'm still happy to look!
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GWG snarfed: I may ask you to test it at some point.
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@ZPskankshanker RT @kevinmarks #iiw @kevinmarks: I'm doing a session on Intro to the indieweb, and how Micropub and webmention are being standardised (twitter.com/_/status/725021389586087936)
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@MartMadisonwmb RT @kevinmarks #iiw @kevinmarks: I'm doing a session on Intro to the indieweb, and how Micropub and webmention are being standardised (twitter.com/_/status/725021334489681921)
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@pTamv4291Cz RT @kevinmarks #iiw @kevinmarks: I'm doing a session on Intro to the indieweb, and how Micropub and webmention are being standardised (twitter.com/_/status/725021206924156929)
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@kilbill2009cg RT @kevinmarks #iiw @kevinmarks: I'm doing a session on Intro to the indieweb, and how Micropub and webmention are being standardised (twitter.com/_/status/725021189362569218)
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@gRegorLove @justb3a FYI, your webmention endpoint is showing a PHP fatal error. (twitter.com/_/status/725020301382184960)
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@bryanwempen RT @kevinmarks #iiw @kevinmarks: I'm doing a session on Intro to the indieweb, and how Micropub and webmention are being standardised (twitter.com/_/status/725019580704415744)
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@tomwiththeweath RT @kevinmarks #iiw @kevinmarks: I'm doing a session on Intro to the indieweb, and how Micropub and webmention are being standardised (twitter.com/_/status/725018365400473600)
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@kevinmarks #iiw @kevinmarks: I'm doing a session on Intro to the indieweb, and how Micropub and webmention are being standardised (twitter.com/_/status/725018049548550144)
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@tomwiththeweath learning about woodwind reader at @kevinmarks #iiw session #indieweb https://github.com/kylewm/woodwind (twitter.com/_/status/725028246748860416)
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tantek KevinMarks: ^^^ is your IIW session at a permalink somewhere on your site or the IIW wiki so we can add it to /Events ?
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gregorlove.com edited /Internet_Identity_Workshop (+71) "past events, see also" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /IIW (+5) "updated redirect" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2016-04-26-iiw (+61) "stub" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (-66) "/* April */ updated IIW wiki link" (view diff)
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gRegorLove KevinMarks, tantek: Added /events/2016-04-26-iiw
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tantek gRegorLove++ thanks!
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Loqi gRegorLove has 63 karma
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2016-04-26-iiw (+57) "link, dates" (view diff)
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@tomwiththeweath discussing #indieweb at #iiw https://twitter.com/tomwiththeweath/status/725033413393154048/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/725033413393154048)
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gregorlove.com edited /Internet_Identity_Workshop (+69) "dfn" (view diff)
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aaronpk Take a photo so that it ends up in /this-week!
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tantek aaronpk I see a photo here: https://twitter.com/tomwiththeweath/status/725033413393154048 - should we hotlink it?
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@tomwiththeweath discussing #indieweb at #iiw [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/725033413393154048)
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aaronpk That'll work
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tantek ^^^ interesting that Loqi just said [photo] but previously (3 lines up) gave the full photo URL
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aaronpk Oops
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aaronpk totally different code for those
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aaronpk on two different servers too
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gRegorLove Loqi, how many personalities do you have?
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-05-06-iiw (+57) "link, dates" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Internet_Identity_Workshop (+37) "/* See Also */ IIW wiki" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] did https://facebook-atom.appspot.com stop working?
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snarfed [kevinmarks]: ruh roh. hope not!
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snarfed looking
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snarfed [kevinmarks]: ah. looks like you may have changed your fb password recently, or otherwise changed your fb login/security settings?
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snarfed try regenerating your feed with your current cookie
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-04-26-iiw (+284) "Photos, add one of kevinmarks with u-photo" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ I added a photo - now the question is, how does "this week" discover it?
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aaronpk I think I documented that
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week#How_to_add_events_to_the_newsletter
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gRegorLove u-photo or u-featured
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@kevinmarks #iiw using https://silo.pub/ and quill to post to twitter #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/725036895055400960)
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aaronpk oh, I removed featured. Can someone update that page?
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gRegorLove Sure
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gregorlove.com edited /this-week-in-the-indieweb (-74) "/* How to add events to the newsletter */ no more u-featured" (view diff)
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KevinMarks i may have mispasted the cookie; works now after Ilaoded m.facebook.com myself
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tantek aaronpk, does the event page itself need h-event markup for this week to find it? or just a u-photo on the root object e.g. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-04-26-iiw
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KevinMarks hm, if I laod it in the browser it works, when I ask woodwind to poll it it then gets a 401
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snarfed KevinMarks: huh. odd.
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tantek user agent diff?
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snarfed my reader (newsblur) is fetching my fb-atom feed ok right now
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snarfed (sorry, i know "works for me" isn't very helpful. just a data point.)
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KevinMarks hm. If I unsubscribe, and resubscribe it worked
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KevinMarks not sure what is up there
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snarfed https://twitter.com/nelson/status/725032919073447936
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@nelson A delicious irony; @anildash's interview with @pb about permalinks is no longer accessible from its permalink. https://web.archive.org/web/20080706062447/http://www.sixapart.com/blog/2003/09/interview_with.html (twitter.com/_/status/725032919073447936)
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tantek isn't that more sad than delicious?
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dym_cx lest call them ephemeralinks
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[kevinmarks] hm, I think my intro to indieweb was very chaotic
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[kevinmarks] (At iiw)
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[kevinmarks] If I do a more formal one I need to make diagrams
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[kevinmarks] there's a weird problem where things either work really well and the demo is invisible
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[kevinmarks] or I get a login glitch and it doesn't work at all
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[jgarber] Speaking of Delicious… how long has it been “undergoing maintenance”…? http://www.delicious.com
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Loqi [jgarber]: tantek left you a message on 4/21 at 6:06pm: Can you confirm HWC DC 2016-05-04? Update location? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-21/line/1461287175339
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dym_cx venn-daigrams of silos vs data
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[kevinmarks] Maybe leading with indieauth was a mistake; I thought that would make sense at iiw
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tantek "demo is invisible" is a sign that you need a better narrative around the demo, "here's the problem today. here's what we ideally want. so here's what we built"
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[kevinmarks] but starting with webmention, then micropub then indieauth may make more sense
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dym_cx current indieweb is all about webmentions
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tantek dym_cs how so? people have very different itches on their personal user pages
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tantek KevinMarks: consider that the implied framing of you wondering which order you should talk about the plumbing may be part of the problem.
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KevinMarks right
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KevinMarks I suppose I implicitly decided that this is a plumbing audience
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dym_cx if the point of indieweb is to migrate from silos – the thing which keeps people there must be first – constant line of communication is whats matter and addictive
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KevinMarks I gave the high level stuff at the beginning, but leading with use cases makes more sense
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tantek it's never a plumbing audience. or rather, EVERYONE benefits from a quick dive from 50k feet "here's the user problem" down through each layer to ... and that's how we came up with webmention etc.
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tantek not a high level overview
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tantek that's boring to everyone who's heard that too many times
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tantek but rather, one at a time, e.g. high level, I want to post stuff on the web that I control, not just to silos
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KevinMarks high level in a sense of web as platform
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KevinMarks yes
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tantek then deep dive down to how that works, demo that
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tantek then move onto the next highlevel item
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KevinMarks the silos use the web as platform, but keep breaking
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tantek why does that matter?
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tantek that seems like a coffee chat tangent
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tantek users don't care about web as platform
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KevinMarks maybe the user story lead-in is site deaths
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tantek it could be. certainly was a few years ago. but today hopefully we can lead with more positive user-story lead-ins.
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gRegorLove webmention certainly seems to be a popular entry point to indieweb, seeing all the cool interactions that can be done with it. That was the case for me, seeing federated comments.
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GWG Maybe we need more testimonials.
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gRegorLove Cool blue "maintenance" text that isn't a link, delicious.com
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miklb gRegorLove agreed. I just got my first post->bridgy->Twitter with lots of likes today. It is encouraging.
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miklb Certainly would like more interaction, but it is tangible evidence of interaction back to one's own site.
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GWG "I didn’t have a friend in the world. I was just a bit of flotsam in the sea of life. A pitiful outcast, shunned by my fellow man. I was a mess. And then, one day...I received a webmention."
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miklb I can only relate it to pre-Twitter blogging and getting comments and seeing link referrals.
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gRegorLove Going through the Wayback on delicious.com, found this: https://web.archive.org/web/20160424030958/http://delicious.com/
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gRegorLove Moving back to del.icio.us
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gRegorLove What is del.icio.us?
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Loqi Delicious.com (originally launched in 2003 at del.icio.us) is a bookmarks silo that was among the first to implement tags, and user-tagging (AKA folksonomy), and present a UI of popular tags https://indiewebcamp.com/del.icio.us
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gRegorLove "The first big change you’ll notice is our transition from the javascript front-end framework . . . For example, the search engines have a real problem reading our content, hindering users’ efforts to use Google or Bing to find what they’re looking for on Delicious." http://blog.delicious.com/2016/01/delicious-changes/
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gRegorLove So many company transitions for delicious.
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tantek and yet it is surviving in one form or another for ~13 years
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gRegorLove Delicious -> Yahoo -> Avos Systems -> Science, Inc -> Delicious Media
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gRegorLove Yep. That's impressive. I still kinda root for it, even if I don't use it anymore.
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miklb Any time I see delicious mentioned, I snicker thinking about Maciej's public teasing.
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gregorlove.com edited /Delicious (+179) "history section" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Couldn't agree more. When an app/website/workflow/etc. is slow, I might not even notice, I just gradually use it less and less. A big ..." https://kylewm.com/2016/04/couldn-t-agree-more-when-an-app-website-workflow
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kylewm woo Loqi's fast again
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miklb neat, a typo in my post :/
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[kevinmarks] The missing images on woodwind for the posse chiclets spoil my demo a bit
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[kevinmarks] Do I need to reauth
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miklb hmmm. Not showing up on my site, but it shows up on yours kylewm
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kylewm miklb: I see it on your site
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kylewm kevinmarks: no, aaronpk and i were working on fixing the images and stuff, and we're not quite done yet
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miklb oh, there it s.
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kylewm miklb: two small mf2 tweaks -- you've got p-author inside of h-card, you probably want them on the same tag (h-card is the value of the author property of the post)
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miklb you lost me :)
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kylewm you've got <div class="h-entry"><div class="h-card"><span class="p-author">Michael Bishop</span></div></div>
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kylewm http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160426204925041
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kylewm where this would be better http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160426204951466
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kylewm the p-* class sets a property of its enclosing h-* object
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miklb ah thanks!
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kylewm surely!
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kylewm aaronpk++ persistent html snippets on pin13 are super useful
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Loqi aaronpk has 121 karma
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kylewm kevinmarks: how much time before your demo? I can hack in font-awesome icons real quick
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kylewm kevinmarks: oh or you might try clicking "Update syndication targets" on https://woodwind.xyz/settings/micropub
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kylewm there won't be images but it will include the name of the service
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miklb fixed on my site & fixed in jekyll-indieweb.
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miklb kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 323 karma
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kylewm thanks miklb :) I forgot something though (left you a comment on GH)
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Loqi [indieweb] "miklb pushed to master at miklb/jekyll-indieweb" by miklb https://github.com/miklb/jekyll-indieweb/compare/562fac97a8...584df723c7
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gRegorLove In CSS input[type=number] should have the same specificity as a .class-name selector, right?
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tantek [type=number] attribute selector same specificity as .class-name selector yes
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tantek adding the element name "input" alters the specificity
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gRegorLove Issue seems to actually be I can't override a border: none; with border: 1px solid #000;
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gRegorLove Without an ugly !important
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tantek hmm that's odd - are you able to see in the Element Inspector which rules are applying to the styling?
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tantek (and not applying?)
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gRegorLove Oh wait, I re-read what you said.
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gRegorLove Making it input.class-name works
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@Petersell RT @ChrisAldrich Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/ https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/724653110199619584/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/725076267264036865)
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miklb kylewm thanks for the follow up.
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kylewm :+1:
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miklb is Loqi picking up that repo because indieweb is in the repo title?
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Loqi is done
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kylewm I was wonderin that too
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miklb I hadn't seen it show up in IRC before
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kylewm if that were the case, I'd expect it to pick up every commit to github.com/indieweb repositories, which would be a lot
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miklb true
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kylewm I think it must bea combination of 1) it has "indieweb" in it, and 2) superfeedr knows about it
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miklb tries not to be self conscious of it
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Loqi [indieweb] "miklb pushed to master at miklb/jekyll-indieweb" by miklb https://github.com/miklb/jekyll-indieweb/compare/584df723c7...34d5da9031
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aaronpk i wonder how superfeedr knows about it
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aaronpk does github publish an rss feed of commits?
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miklb it was linked to from IWC iirc
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kylewm https://github.com/miklb/jekyll-indieweb/commits/master.atom
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kylewm there's also some interesting rel="alternate" links to patches and diffs
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kylewm (nobody subscribes to it in woodwind, fwiw)
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miklb :shrug:
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[kevinmarks] when I update syndication targets it still says "Updated syndication targets: twitter::kevinmarks, facebook::10154585682935425, facebook::863215510399318, facebook::688447421193285, facebook::159878817395294, facebook::36123201464"
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[kevinmarks] is this because hosted known is lagging?
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kylewm ah, yep
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kylewm there's an issue
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[kevinmarks] you checked in the new protocol stuff already?
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snarfed new protocol?
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kylewm https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1352
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snarfed ah micropub. cool.
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kylewm wow, can't believe we didn't put this on the wiki
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kylewm bad kylewm
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kylewm oh lol, that's because aaronpk put it in the micropub spec http://micropub.net/draft/#syndication-targets
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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kylewm kevinmarks: I can literally just edit your syndication text in the database for the purpose of your demo if you want
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KevinMarks well, I'd rather known fixed it for others
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KevinMarks (one reason I run on hosted known is to be a canary for these kind of things)
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KevinMarks or I suppose woodwind could check if the uid is a url
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kylewm it isn't for Known though, so that wouldn't help
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kylewm so I think there is actually enough data in the HTML that I could parse out simple "uid" (facebook::123456) and "name" (Kevin Marks on Facebook) properties
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kylewm that would need to happen here: https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/master/IdnoPlugins/IndiePub/Pages/MicroPub/Endpoint.php#L27
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KevinMarks passing domain=twitter%3A%3Akevinmarks is part of the glitch
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kylewm oh because it gives you a broken favicon, sure
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kylewm i'm just gonna pull out that favicon stuff
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KevinMarks the favicon is OK if you know it is a domain
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KevinMarks just sanity check the domain with urlparse or some
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KevinMarks <img src="//www.google.com/s2/favicons?domain=twitter%3A%3Akevinmarks" alt="twitter::kevinmarks">
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KevinMarks because the favicon fails, it shows the alt text which is ugly
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KevinMarks <label for="sc-737470-1"><img src="//www.google.com/s2/favicons?domain=twitter%3A%3Akevinmarks" alt="twitter::kevinmarks">&nbsp;:kevinmarks</label> the kevinmarks underneath gets stomped
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kylewm nah, i'm not going to use the favicon in the long term, so I'd rather just get rid of it
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KevinMarks OK, your app
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KevinMarks :D
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kylewm hehe
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miklb Now I need to figure out how to get notifications of webmentions :)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Adrienne Prince" by Adrienne Prince http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30400
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Nancy Norris" by Nancy Norris http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30402
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Andreas Petersell" by Andreas Petersell http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30401
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Adrienne Prince" by Adrienne Prince http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30399
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kylewm what is Talkshow?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Talkshow" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Jt
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kylewm Talkshow is a (currently iOS only) app for "texting in public" where text exchanges are made viewable to a wide audience https://medium.com/talkshow/talkshow-is-texting-in-public-c063b591596e.
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loqi.me created /Talkshow (+219) "prompted by kylewm https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-26/line/1461712357375 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kylewm it's weird when you hear something and think "oh god that sounds like my actual nightmare" and then see internet thought leaders saying what a great idea it is
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prtksxna kylewm: Talkshow sounds like IRC
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aaronpk isn't that just twitter?
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aaronpk oh, two people texting with each other where the conversation is public?
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kylewm I guess it's like, you could set it up as a regular thing? where people would "tune in"
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kylewm like textual periscope
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aaronpk bets on how long until they add photos and videos?
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Loqi I don't know
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aaronpk and then how long until they shut down?
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Loqi I don't know
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gRegorLove What DO you know, Loqi?
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Loqi is done
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