#indieweb 2018-03-29

2018-03-29 UTC
markong, tantek, snarfed1, [cleverdevil], snarfed, ajft, eli_oat, wolftune and [kaushal_modi] joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu did Loqi break on #indieweb on Twitter again?
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aaronpk oho
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aaronpk ono
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aaronpk hm I don't think so?
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KartikPrabhu https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/979175639268888577
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@kartik_prabhu B: We need a better social network. A: Do you like ads? B: No! A: Can I sell your data? B: No! A: Can I have your data anyway? B: No! A: Do you want to host it yourself? B: No! A: Do you want to pay for this better social network? B: No! A: OK, bye! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/979175639268888577)
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aaronpk it's entirely possible the search api just didn't return that
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KartikPrabhu <shrug> how ironic
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aaronpk heh
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tantek indieweb culture review request:
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tantek what is othering?
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Loqi othering is the artificial dichotomy framing of two sets of people as "us" vs "them", something we should try to avoid or at least minimize on the indieweb per our principles (in particular plurality) and code-of-conduct https://indieweb.org/othering
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tantek opinions? thoughts? anyone think this doesn't accurately commonly accepted community ideals / goals etc.? looking for missed aspects or how to improve
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KartikPrabhu also ironic since I just "othered" with that post
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aaronpk starting to feel like I need actual support for private posts on my site, and thinking about making all "likes" private by default
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tantek making all *your* likes?
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tantek or likes on your posts?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: sounds more like illustration by socratic dialog
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aaronpk posts i've liked
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tantek that sounds more like private bookmarks
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tantek unless you mean the receiver of the like still sees it
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aaronpk yeah I want the receiver to see it still
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tantek is obscurity enough? like not having them in any feeds by default?
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aaronpk probably yeah
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aaronpk although my URLs are currently guessable and I woudln't want someone to be able to iterate through my permalinks to find them
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KartikPrabhu why make likes private?
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tantek aaronpk I feel like that's something to not worry about until it happens
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KartikPrabhu as in what propted thi?
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aaronpk well it just happened
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tantek someone iterated your posts by URL hacking?!?
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aaronpk oh, no, but that's trivial
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tantek trivial perhaps but people likely don't care enough to?
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aaronpk maybe
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aaronpk tho, related to this, I just realized the post I wanted to privately "like" is actually from a private instagram account
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aaronpk which means I should absolutely respect the original privacy of the post and not make that post visible to a different audience
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tantek yeah - that's a general category of responses to private posts
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aaronpk I feel like sequential URLs is not enough of a protection against that
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tantek probably not
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aaronpk what are responses?
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Loqi responses, or interactions, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people explicitly do to and with others’s posts, from written replies to quick likes, in other words responses = replies + reactions https://indieweb.org/responses,
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Loqi [superfeedr] "New status by wakest" on 2018-03-29 https://mastodon.social/@wakest/99765511107859457
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tantek interesting, manual RT on Mastodon? https://mastodon.social/@wakest/99765511107859457
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Loqi [˗ˏˋ wakest ˎˊ˗] RT @samim@twitter.com: There is a unique cultural opening currently, for the #indieweb to grab significant marketshare from the great octopi. Exciting times! https://twitter.com/samim/status/978921154093223936
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KartikPrabhu "marketshare"
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tantek didn't see this via Loqi either: https://twitter.com/samim/status/978921154093223936
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@samim There is a unique cultural opening currently, for the #indieweb to grab significant marketshare from the great octopi. Exciting times! (twitter.com/_/status/978921154093223936)
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KartikPrabhu see also https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/979175639268888577
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@kartik_prabhu B: We need a better social network. A: Do you like ads? B: No! A: Can I sell your data? B: No! A: Can I have your data anyway? B: No! A: Do you want to host it yourself? B: No! A: Do you want to pay for this better social network? B: No! A: OK, bye! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/979175639268888577)
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tantek what is free as in facebook
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "free as in facebook" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "free as in facebook is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek free as in facebook is an expression coined to refer to airport wifi with a captive portal that requests a lot of personal information before providing no cost internet access, later generalized to refer to any service offered without charge in exchange for behavioral tracking, ongoing surveillance, or other monitoring and sale of any such information to third parties.
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Loqi ok
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tantek free as in facebook << https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%22free%20as%20in%20facebook%22
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Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%22free%20as%20in%20facebook%22" to the "See Also" section of /free_as_in_facebook
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[kevinmarks] Tantek, my original example is othering in your sense too. It explicitly others non-binary and gender fluid people. By all means improve the definition, but don't erase the example.
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[kevinmarks] It's an example in my procrustes talk
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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jeremycherfas Following up on https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-02-22/1519342221344500 has anyone here actually downloaded audio from anchor.fm?
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Loqi [[cleverdevil]] One thing to note: it appears you can export your audio from Anchor - https://support.anchor.fm/hc/en-us/articles/360000606392-Exporting-your-audio-from-Anchor
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jeremycherfas I'm looking to record more than one podcast guest remotely, but want to do the editing and syncing of speakers myself. Ringr.com allows download of separate tracks from a premium account, but I can't afford that for the few occasions I need it.
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jeremycherfas Any other options that make it super easy for guests?
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@vogelbeere “The lost infrastructure of social media.” by @anildash https://medium.com/@anildash/the-lost-infrastructure-of-social-media-d2b95662ccd3 #indieweb #openweb (twitter.com/_/status/979278647495397376)
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@calum_ryan The next Homebrew Website Club London is on April 4th 👇 https://hwclondon.co.uk/meetups/20180404#intro (twitter.com/_/status/979311015337873408)
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@jkphl @bkastl @hardfire Well, actually @hardfire and I wanted (and still want?) to run an @indiewebcamp there once. ;) (twitter.com/_/status/979318716398698496)
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@hardfire @jkphl @bkastl @indiewebcamp yes! we definitely can (must). we have the space and platform for it now! (twitter.com/_/status/979318950067449856)
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@bkastl @jkphl @hardfire @indiewebcamp For the really independent aspect? Looking at the location 😅 (twitter.com/_/status/979319074172887040)
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@jkphl @hardfire @bkastl @indiewebcamp That sounds great! I'd totally be up for looking into that as of early 2019 (this year's already totally crammed with events I'm organizing ...) (twitter.com/_/status/979319980046061568)
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@hardfire @jkphl @bkastl @indiewebcamp amazing! idea is that the event will be predictable (from a calendar and schedule point of view) for the years to come. end-September is when most of Nepal starts going into a huge festive break! (twitter.com/_/status/979321047051771904)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Moving Closer Towards IndieWeb and Micro.blog" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2018-03-29 https://matigo.ca/2018/03/29/moving-closer-towards-indieweb-and-microblog
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j4y_funabashi morning all
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@marcthiele @jonabaptistella Hey. It is no plugin. It is the concept of the #IndieWeb (https://indieweb.org/). I used Bridgy (https://indieweb.org/Bridgy) to collect webmentions from social media platforms referring to my site. (twitter.com/_/status/979336486532386816)
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@marcthiele @jonabaptistella If you want to learn about this, there is a free two day event right before #btconf in May. The @indiewebcamp – check: https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2018/side-events/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/979336725741916160)
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@cbfishes seems like a whole lot of the folks in the #IndieWeb community are also musicians (like me!). I wonder if it's a coincidence or if... (https://chrisbeckstrom.com/stream/2018/03/29/9780/) (twitter.com/_/status/979353506632040449)
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skippy hello, #indieweb.
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snarfed hey skippy
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Loqi [superfeedr] "seems like a whole lot of the folks in the #IndieWeb community are also musicians (like me!). I..." on 2018-03-29 https://chrisbeckstrom.tumblr.com/post/172377398651
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[kevinmarks] I'm wondering if we need a DeleteFacebook response that is more like this: https://mastodon.social/@maloki/99749823907215231
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Loqi [maloki] Please keep in mind that not everyone is in a privileged enough position to be able to delete Facebook or Twitter, that they need it for staying connected with their network etc. However, you can still encourage them to start building a new network h...
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jeremycherfas Yes, we do.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "The internet that took over the Internet" https://petermolnar.net/internet-emotional-core
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petermolnar woops
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petermolnar that's a duplicate webmention
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petermolnar though I wonder, who
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petermolnar how
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petermolnar ah, trailing / mismatch
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sknebel but it redirects, weird that news.indieweb.org doesn't catch that
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sknebel or did you just fix that?
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petermolnar it redirects
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petermolnar I didn't touch that part in a very long while
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sknebel I wonder if you can temporarily 410 the non-slash one and resend the WM to delete
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petermolnar let me try
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sknebel filed https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews/issues/39
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Loqi [sknebel] #39 include redirect targets in duplicate checking
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aaronpk oops thanks
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Zegnat Hmm, didn’t petermolnar previously mention the priviledge of quiting Facebook here?
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petermolnar I didn't start that conversation
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petermolnar sknebel: it looks like indienews doesn't support deletion
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petermolnar "error_description": "No h-entry or h-event was found on the page, so we were unable to find a u-syndication or u-category URL. If you have multiple top-level h-* objects, ensure that one of them has a u-url property set to the URL of the page." - HTTP 400
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dgold think I mentioned the privilege of quitting, here and on my blog
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@sl007 @edri yep, cheers @Kirst3nF and @why0hy – “... your thoughts” : - meeting w. EU commission people [seem to have a better understanding than the parliament, e.g. Dr. Silvia Grundmann] and other parties (e.g. Raegan McDonald / @lyssaslounge (moz) +indieweb - Brussels indieweb hackathon (twitter.com/_/status/979385140328706049)
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tantek Next events: Homebrew Website Club Meetup https://indieweb.org/events/2018-04-04-homebrew-website-club and IWC Düsseldorf! https://indieweb.org/2018/Düsseldorf. Code of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct, log https://chat.indieweb.org/today
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jmac Howdy y'all... Regarding Microformats2 parsing: If a parser runs into filthy HTML, e.g. <p><div p-foo="bar"></p></div>, Is it expected to throw an exception, or just grimly carry on and make best guesses, in the fashion of a web browser?
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Zegnat When taking microformats from a HTML document, it is assumed you are using a compliant HTML parser. I don’t think the parser as described in HTML5 ever throws an exception.
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Zegnat If you have run into specific examples where parsers are failing, probably best to discuss in #microformats or #indieweb-dev as that gets pretty technical very quickly :)
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gRegorLove Generally it works, e.g. http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20180329162229048
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jmac Zegnat: I didn't know about those channels, thank you! I am rolling my own parser for lolz, and I hail from XML-land where things are expected to scream and die on the slightest misstep
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gRegorLove There's some work in #microformats to improve the PHP parser for better HTML5 support.
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@Lady_Ada_King I just wrote a little service to turn my medium posts into blog posts on my website by creating github pull requests with the new file! So I can author on medium and then keep and publish my own copies on https://ada.is #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/979394096102981632)
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jmac I have a beta-branch of my blog system able to receive webmentions! Now I need it to tease out author information, and that means grokking MF2. And I could use an extant parser, but where's the fun in that, et cetera.
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gRegorLove What is authorship?
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tantek what is Anchor.fm
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Loqi authorship is how to determine who the author(s) of a post are https://indieweb.org/authorship
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Loqi Anchor.FM is a new "radio" app https://indieweb.org/anchor.fm
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jmac gRegorLove: But dancing through the authorship algo still requires the use of MF2 parson, one way or another, right?
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jmac s/parson/parsing/
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gRegorLove Yeah
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tantek kevinmarks not sure I agree with you about that other othering example, as othering as I've heard / seen it used is always an active separation of groups by calling them out as different, as *others* to draw the distinction. whereas the meaning you speak of is more by ignoring / neglect / or ignorance
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aaronpk it's best to think of the parsing and authorship steps as completely separate
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tantek parsing is also better discussed in #indieweb-dev in the context of algorithms like /authorship, or abstractly better discussed in #microformats
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jmac roger dodger
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aaronpk 👍
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@aaronpk Just published v0.4.2 of the PHP Microformats parser! https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/releases/tag/v0.4.2 Thanks to @martijnvdven and @gregorlove for all their work on this release! (twitter.com/_/status/979406170019454976)
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@ChrisAldrich This is just the kind of post I added a chicken feed to my WordPress site for. #pressedconfused #indieweb #fun https://twitter.com/openetc/status/979406583854698496?s=09 http://www.boffosocko.com/kind/chicken/ (twitter.com/_/status/979409793344573440)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "This is just the kind of post I added a chicken feed to my WordPress site for. #pressedconfused #indieweb #fun https://twitter.com/openetc/status/979406583854698496?s=09 http://www.boffosocko.com/kind/chicken/" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-03-29 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/this-is-just-the-kind-of-post-i-added-a
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@ChrisAldrich This is another interesting example for the #indieweb presentations page #pressedconf18 https://twitter.com/cogdog/status/979399034657009665?s=09 https://indieweb.org/presentation (twitter.com/_/status/979411946763145217)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "This is another interesting example for the #indieweb presentations page #pressedconf18 https://twitter.com/cogdog/status/979399034657009665?s=09 https://indieweb.org/presentation" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-03-29 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/this-is-another-interesting-example-for-the-indieweb-presentations-page
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@jjdelc Completely agree. I do want to add that big part of the Indieweb compromise is people owning .. https://jj.isgeek.net/2018/03/29-054734-pm/ (twitter.com/_/status/979414811598565378)
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[kevinmarks] [tantek] see the citation in the see also
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[kevinmarks] @jmac using an html5 compliant parser is a really good idea. Don't make me paste the zalgo link.
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@ChrisAldrich @openetc Have you considered adding the webmention plugins for site to site conversation between participants? https://indieweb.org/Webmention https://indieweb.org/Wordpress_Webmention_Plugin (twitter.com/_/status/979415801051648000)
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@johnjohnston Given recent news about Facebook, twitter &amp; commercial services we have an opportunity to teach children a little about alternatives to silos. Will this will lead some learners &amp; teachers to domain of ones own &amp; the indieweb? #pressedconf18 #WordPressforWeans2018 #GlowBlogs https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZebdL1W0AUENXt.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/979422488693272577)
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@ChrisAldrich @johnjohnston This presentation makes my itch for a public multisite #WordPress install with an #IndieWeb stack even worse... I may have to pick your brain a bit more on it. #pressedconf18 (twitter.com/_/status/979424875386417152)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@johnjohnston This presentation makes my itch for a public multisite #WordPress install with an #IndieWeb stack even worse... I may have to pick your brain" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-03-29 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/johnjohnston-this-presentation-makes-my-itch-for-a-public-multisite
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@openetc @ChrisAldrich Absolutely - on the horizon #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/979427455407706112)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Laura Gibbs retweeted: Given recent news about Facebook, twitter & commercial services we have an opportunity to teach children a little about alternatives to silos. Will this will lead some learners & teachers to domain of ones own & the indieweb? #pressedconf18 #WordPressforWeans2018 #GlowBlogs" by Laura Gibbs on 2018-03-29 https://twitter.com/OnlineCrsLady/status/979434232257925120
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aaronpk wat how did superfeedr find the tweet
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@ludovicchabant @bleroy Parts of the IndieWeb movement is doing all of that (although it’s still with lots of homebrewed/ad-hoc tech for early adopters). I personally don’t like it — POSSE (https://indieweb.org/POSSE) is good but anything beyond that breaks down (twitter.com/_/status/979437728600227840)
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@ludovicchabant @bleroy FYI I’ve been hacking around these things lately, making PieCrust’s admin panel support Micropub (https://indieweb.org/Micropub) so I can post from apps like http://Micro.blog, and also partial Webmention (https://indieweb.org/Webmention) support. It’s fun! (twitter.com/_/status/979439775349223424)
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@samim @memotv experimenting still on how to best do cross posting from the self hosted blog to twitter. tricky topic https://indieweb.org/POSSE anyhow, the integration will get better with time. (twitter.com/_/status/979441688371490817)
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gRegorLove aaronpk: via http://mythfolklore.net/
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aaronpk oh interesting
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gRegorLove inoreader feed: http://www.inoreader.com/stream/user/1005987531/tag/lkgrss/view/xml
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gRegorLove which I'm wondering how they generate...
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gRegorLove Guess they connect to your Twitter account and pull in your tweets
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sknebel gRegorLove: yep, inoreader integrates with twitter, facebook, vkontakte to subscribe things there
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sknebel through the APIs
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snarfed gRegorLove: sknebel: got links to any of their docs on that? facebook at least doesn't really expose your news feed specifically via the API, at least not to mere mortals. hence why https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ has to scrape :(
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gRegorLove https://blog.inoreader.com/2015/03/inoreader-how-to-subscribe-to-social.html
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sknebel snarfed: seems like you can only follow individual facebook pages, not your entire news feed https://blog.inoreader.com/2015/06/follow-facebook-pages-in-inoreader.html
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snarfed heh, i figured as much
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gRegorLove Yeah, Facebook pages https://blog.inoreader.com/2015/06/follow-facebook-pages-in-inoreader.html
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snarfed #brands
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gRegorLove what is inoreader?
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Loqi Inoreader, a feed reader service https://indieweb.org/Inoreader
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@johnjohnston @LornaMCampbell @OpenEdEdinburgh "Maintaining Identity &amp; Sharing" The #IndieWeb POSSE in academic action. The connecting of various tubes is one of the most exciting things about blogging/RSS etc. (twitter.com/_/status/979461453051826176)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @bphogan come on over to https://chat.indieweb.org to talk about it instead of using a closed silo like twitter (twitter.com/_/status/979464244549754880)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ Ryan and I are posting on our own sites and sending copies to the ephemeral twitter. You could be too, you have the space for it https://bphogan.com/ join the #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/979472279292715008)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@bphogan Ryan and I are posting on ..." by Kevin Marks on 2018-03-29 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2018/bphogan-ryan-and-i-are-posting-on
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Loqi [superfeedr] "A potential tipping point: Part 2 of “Facebook is Fucked”" by Jon Pincus on 2018-03-29 https://medium.com/a-change-is-coming/a-potential-tipping-point-part-2-of-facebook-is-fucked-22497063b966?source=rss-------1
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Loqi [superfeedr] "The Second Innings Of The Internet" by John Philpin on 2018-03-29 https://people-first.net/2018/03/29/the-second-innings-of-the-internet/
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tantek good afternoon #indieweb!
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@kevinmarks “As danah points out, though, the vulnerable people are banding together and speaking out loudly — with the support of a lot of privileged people as well. ” http://www.talesfromthe.net/jon/?p=2948 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/979479063189274624)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "“As danah points out, though, the ..." by Kevin Marks on 2018-03-29 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2018/as-danah-points-out-though-the
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[kevinmarks] https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/growth-at-any-cost-top-facebook-executive-defended-data
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@garrettc Excellent evening at @codebarOxford tonight. I gave my little indieweb lightning talk again, and blew some minds with a css grid demo. (twitter.com/_/status/979483531872227328)
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@kevinmarks “the novelty and connection Facebook offered in its early days is gone. In its place is that constant feeling that it’s 3am in a Reno, Nevada casino when we’d like to stop playing the slot machines, but can’t quite do it.” -@ginab https://medium.com/@ginab/dont-just-deletefacebook-let-s-build-something-better-6bf5caad6965 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/979486814510637056)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "“the novelty and connection Facebook offered in ..." by Kevin Marks on 2018-03-29 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2018/the-novelty-and-connection-facebook-offered-in
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[kevinmarks] https://hosts.mn.co/posts/is-there-a-generic-rss-feed-we-can-offer-members-of-our-networks-if-so-how-do-we-do-so/comments/2415382?utm_source=manual
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[kevinmarks] https://hosts.mn.co/posts/1563749?utm_source=manual
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tantek so much utm
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[kevinmarks] interesting itches list? https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-alternatives/
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[kevinmarks] feed readers redux? https://www.wired.com/story/news-apps-to-replace-facebooks-news-feed/
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@kevinmarks “As I have said for many years – “I am my own system of record”.” https://people-first.net/2018/03/29/the-second-innings-of-the-internet #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/979490699073617920)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "“As I have said for many years ..." by Kevin Marks on 2018-03-29 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2018/as-i-have-said-for-many-years
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tantek this is a good post: https://people-first.net/2018/03/29/the-second-innings-of-the-internet/