#indieweb 2018-05-21

2018-05-21 UTC
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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jgmac1106 Good morning all
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jeremycherfas Morning jgmac1106
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jgmac1106 It’s not Swedish but they go to Sweden been watching the “The Rain” on NetFlix, not a bad spin on the post apocalyptic teen drama
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Zegnat jgmac1106, just looking at the webmentions questions you posted, and there are a lot of “it depends” answers there, haha
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] I thought about saying “if you use the 2016-indieweb fork theme” because much of the “depends” is theme based as well
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jgmac1106 will move over to #wordpress but as I am watching people try this who have webmention on WordPress blogs these are the questions they will ask me
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Zegnat They are interesting. And actually, I expect those questions to not only come from WP users, but from any newly onboarded users on any system that happens to be IndieWeb-friendly
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] Yeah that makes sense. I guess I assumed WordPress has more “that depends” than other platforms
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jgmac1106 but now that I think about it I would have to answer the question when people install Known.
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jgmac1106 and I don’t know enough about Druppal or microblog to discuss any of the “depends” there
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Zegnat Almost all of them rely on a multitude of movable and interchangable parts. So lots of “depends” for all, I imagine.
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Zegnat Then again, I am known as a standards purist, so I would say the last question on your list doesn’t even have anything to do with webmentions. Is a syndication question instead ;)
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petermolnar where are the questions you're talking about?
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[jgmac1106] https://jgregorymcverry.com/2684-2/
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Thinking about different webmention and bridgy questions people will have: If I have the webmention plugin what happens if I add a link to a post on a blog where somebody else has webmentions? If I have webmentions and I reply to to somone’s blog...
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[jgmac1106] a user is rarely worried about standards. They want to know if they are having a twitter conversation on a tweet that was originally sent as a webmention what is the best way to a:) keep the tweets threaded and b:) keep the comments together on the post. If you say reply to each tweet as new post do I go back and add each post as webmention to the original post to get them to be added as comments?
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petermolnar I can't answer these questions at all; I've never dwelt this deep into Twitter, and I genuinely dislike threaded commenting.
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[jgmac1106] will be sorting post-kinds and titles next...thus the numeric url, forgot about that. I like titling posts: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19l28iCNAcMiwL2Tpko0GhiLVAVyl9DPltNS8ZvumwoE/edit?usp=sharing
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jgmac1106 yeah [petermolnar] kind of waiting for the day Twitter breaks bridgy and everyone’s life gets easier
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petermolnar kind of waiting for the day when social media breaks :(
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] to cotnrol for “that depends” thinking about telling my students , “You will use this theme” but it feels so un indiew and domain of ones own…but every layer of “that depends” is a new layer of support I need to add
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petermolnar on the other hand... I've deactivated my facebook account about a month (or more?) ago, and I'm starting to feel like I haven't heard anything about anyone in a very long while. It'd probably be less of a towering feeling if was wasn't living abroad.
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petermolnar jgmac1106: that it true. every design/tech decision will effect the next layer
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Zegnat Oh, yeah, jgmac1106, I agree that the user should not have to be concerned with the plumbing. I am just concerned when things like syndication and webmentions get mashed up into one thing.
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Zegnat If I write a webmention plugin for [random-cms-here], I am not going to implement syndication in the same plugin. But if those 2 things have gotten mashed up, people might expect my plugin to “work with Twitter” in some way.
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jgmac1106 [petermolnar] same here, but its forcing me to concentrate on circles that really matter. My family started up a weekly sms chat, my high school friends started to do the same
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jgmac1106 the kid I used to know in Texas when I was six…not so much…maybe scarcity of contact improves quality
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petermolnar jgmac1106: that is rare. I've tried reviving some connections with emails; one of the threads was sent to 6 of my direct friends, 3 never even replied in any form. I've been trying to revive communities outside of Facebook for 7 years now, and I'm on the verge of giving up.
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Zegnat I can‘t answer for WP themes of course. But themes are important when you want your website to be parsable. If you don’t want your posts to be (easily) machine parsable, you can use whatever theme you want. Doesn’t impede sending webmentions either, but makes a difference how the receiving end can handle the webmention.
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petermolnar as for the tech discussion, Zegnat: this is one of the things where a minimum understanding of plumbing can't and shouldn't be hidden from the user.
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Zegnat Yeah, I go back and forth on that, petermolnar. Webmentions are great, but they are technical plumbing. But when people start to refer to one particular use of them as “webmentions”, I start to feel like I need to educate the masses on the technical side of things. Eternal internal conflict.
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] themes can greatly affect how webmentions are displayed as comments..though it has gotten much better
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petermolnar making people understand that a webmention is a poke at another website and backfeed is pulling data in from another website shouldn't be that hard, however, now that I'm writing it down like this, processing a webmention request is backfeeding, isn't it?
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jgmac1106 to a user a webmention is both noun and verb
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Zegnat Yes, but the noun-webmention has gotten a meaning that doesn’t always (in my opinion) matches with what a webmention actually is
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jgmac1106 now take it one step further and realize nobody I talk to knows what you mean when you say backfeed
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] 100% agree. People think of a webmention as a a social media post that shows up on my blog as a comment
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Zegnat I think sebsel did a really nice job of capturing Webmentions in his post, where he talks about “Webmention as thing-it-self”, “Webmention++” and “Inter-social-media webmentions”. https://seblog.nl/2018/05/09/5/de-magie-van-webmentions
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Zegnat Should probably convince him to translate it to English. Or allow me to translate it for him.
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Zegnat jgmac1106, exactly. But sometimes the webmention may be so your CMS can display a notification that you got tagged in a photo I uploaded. And other times the webmention lets you know I am sending you a private message. Because, as petermolnar put it, “a webmention is a poke”. It does not itself imply anything about its purpose.
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jgmac1106 yep and thus the sisyphean hill we must all climb together. Maybe with a little help the giy could have gotten the rock up the hill
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Zegnat A webmention *can* let you know someone left a comment for you on an external website. And that is a great use. I am just wary of calling that specific interaction “a webmention”.
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jgmac1106 just opened in Chrome inxstead of FF so it just translates
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Zegnat Let me know if any of it comes out too garbled to comprehend
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jgmac1106 …oh I know the answers to my questions, just trying to document questions I know people have
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] I am assuming Frank is a persona from Nuremberg? If so [sknebel] should add a link
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Zegnat No. Frank is a person, haha
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Zegnat frankmeeuwsen here in chat, http://diggingthedigital.com/ in the blogosphere
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Zegnat He had described webmentions as magic, and sebsel had a go at trying to lift the curtain a little
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] it is a good description, I can tell people a webmention is a protocol that allows to websites to talk together and let one know the other website mentioned it somewhere, for webmentions to work with social media we have to use a second tool as well called Bridgy that backfeeds a psot about a website back to that site as as a webmention
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[sebsel] [jgmac1106] Yeah, so Frank is real, and sebsel is not sknebel (nor swentel, so many s…e…l names!)
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jgmac1106 oops didn’t realize [sebsel] wrote post my bad
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sebsel re: my different names for different kind of webmentions... I always like to add a bit of humor / lightness to my subtitles. That helps break the article. I don't think "Webmention++" is really a good name for what I describe there (Wm+mf2 parsing)
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sebsel Adopting that would just make more jargon :)
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jgmac1106 so [petermolnar] what I could tell Cathie is thishttps://twitter.com/petermolnar/status/998505847717318656 did not show up as a webmention on my blog because you were replying to her tweet (which did send a webmention) and not to my original post
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@petermolnar @cathieleblanc @jgmac1106 Webmention: one website to poke another website that an entry of mine (the first website) has your (the second website) link (URL), so the contents of the entry might be interesting to you. The rest is up to the second website - process it? Display it? Etc. (twitter.com/_/status/998505847717318656)
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petermolnar what is salmentions?
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Loqi Salmentions are a protocol extension to Webmention to propagate comments and other interactions upstream by sending a webmention from a response to the original post when the response itself receives a response (comment, like, etc.) https://indieweb.org/Salmentions
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petermolnar jgmac1106: ^^^
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Zegnat (That would of course ony work if Cathie was backfeeding from Twitter, and then resending the webmention of her comment to jgmac1106.)
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jgmac1106 yes didn’t expect Peter’s comment to show, but this post will be an illustative example I use>I posted orgininal syndicate with Bridgy>Cathie commented on Twitter>Bridgy backfeeds webmention to my site>I do new post as a reply to Cathie’s tweet>My post shows up as a reply to Cathie’s tweet and my new post shows as a comment as reply to my original post. Peter comes along on Twitter and replies to Cathie’s tweet. It does
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jgmac1106 show up on my original post as a comment becuase Peter did not include a link to my original post
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jgmac1106 …but now I want a salmention plugin
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jgmac1106 or it’s another vote for Known over WordPress as my final solution. Though I think [sknebel] will gode me into trying drupal before drawing final conclusion…and now Micropub beta testing Android…..so many choices
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petermolnar that's part of the idea
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petermolnar the amount of choices
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petermolnar even though it complicates things
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Zegnat *cough* swentel not sknebel, for drupal, I expect ;)
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swentel eh?
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Zegnat swentel, aren’t you the drupal rep in here?
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swentel yep :)
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swentel just wondering why I was pinged heh
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Zegnat Oh, because people’s names are getting mixed up and I was trying to clarify
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[jgmac1106] I'll get em sorted
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], re your latest webmention definition. If you are going for users, maybe “protocol” is the wrong word? Especially when you are using the webmention-as-noun form?
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] yes I tried for the appositive defition included but maybe still too much. I can call anything a technology and still have it work
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[jgmac1106] well off to work enjoy your day all
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@kevinmarks Most #indieweb answer yet https://twitter.com/helenhousandi/status/998379752133218305 (twitter.com/_/status/998541316702310400)
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Zegnat Huh, some tweets in the conversation seem to show in a smaller font for me :S
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Zegnat Anyone else seeing that? https://i.imgur.com/AhveKtt.png E.g. the “Why?” and “In Java” tweets seem to have a smaller font-size.
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[jgmac1106] Same font and size for me on Twitter for Android
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swentel image?
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petermolnar same size here as well
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petermolnar and I've written my own cms twice already... I'm not even 35 yet...
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petermolnar https://www.wsj.com/public/current/summaries/hypetoc.htm - whoa. That's a spacejam level relic.
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petermolnar https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17114486 - Known on HN; one of the comments is mentioning that a video on the front page, demoing the whole thing (eg. cross setup Twitter and cross post there) would be rather useful.
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Loqi [Tomte] Known: Social publishing
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dgold https://freedomfromfb.com/
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marclaporte dgold: The real solution is for people to control their data with solutions like http://wikisuite.org
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[jgmac1106] need a hotel recommendation for the Summit. Where are folks staying?
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[jgmac1106] found it on the wiki
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@andrewsreading ✌ @Reading "The Indieweb privacy challenge (Webmentions, silo backfeeds, and the GDPR) // Sebastian Greger" http://ing.am/p/4YYe (twitter.com/_/status/998588894697476096)
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@schmarty Notes from newcomers, 5 years of Ghosting, and uh-oh for dot-IO. It's your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for May 12th - 18th, 2018. https://martymcgui.re/2018/05/21/113712/ (twitter.com/_/status/998589121873567750)
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[jgmac1106] I am going to book a room with double Queens but my uni covers almost 100% of the cost so if somebody needs a room for the summit for 75-80 from M-W feel free to ping me
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • May 12th - 18th, 2018 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/482948 (twitter.com/_/status/998590856109096965)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @sharkespearean @DrAndrewThaler we're talking about how to revive that experience in #indieweb land https://indieweb.org/Microsub (twitter.com/_/status/998600222690500608)
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@wiobyrne My response to the recent discussion of Google & their Selfish Ledger video - Better visions of ourselves: Human futures, user data, & The Selfish Ledger. A little #IndieWeb #Blockchain #dooo #edtech #screentime http://bit.ly/2rX0H1N (twitter.com/_/status/998606798394462213)
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Jeena who is https://eli.li
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Loqi Eli Mellen
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Jeena And why doesn't she have a RSS feed?
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sknebel Jeena: he has an rss feed? https://eli.li/rss/
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sknebel eli_oat here on IRC
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Jeena ah, all the way down on the website, damn it's always difficult to find those links if they're not in the head with <link rel="alternate" ...
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Jeena eli_oat[m], would you mind adding a <link rel="alternate" ... to your html so that browsers and feed readers can find the subscription link?
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eli_oat[m] Sorry! I could have sworn that was present but I can make sure to add this evening
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Jeena cool, thanks!
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@ablaze 👁 Reading: “An IndieWeb reader: My new home on the internet - The Garage” https://www.godaddy.com/garage/an-indieweb-reader-my-new-home-on-the-internet/ (twitter.com/_/status/998620591828676608)
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eli_oat[m] No problem! Sorry it is missing.
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Jeena Now I already subscribed, but the next person might have the same problem :p
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eli_oat[m] @Jeena I’ve added it (over ssh from my phone 😬)
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Jeena hm it seems you introduced a bug you say application/rss+xml but when I click on it I get JSON ;)
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eli_oat[m] Oh. Wait. Is broken. Fixing now. 😱
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Jeena (But interesting that you can fix your website on your phone ^^)
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eli_oat[m] Just fixed it
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Jeena perfect, works like a charm now!
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eli_oat[m] Thanks for the heads up!
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@tmreading2 Jon Mitchell ๛ is reading "https://www.godaddy.com/garage/an-indieweb-reader-my-new-home-on-the-internet/" https://ift.tt/2wVxNEe (twitter.com/_/status/998623999495147520)
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eli_oat[m] (I’ve also proved myself to be the hardest core of lurkers on this channel through this) 👋
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Jeena hehe
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Jeena Damn I hate badly written commit messages so much, like this for example: https://git.tt-rss.org/fox/tt-rss/commit/0a8cdd4b9c320e4dcc74507b672b1fd10b59b677 Why don't they mention the reason why they're removing this functionality??
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[kevinmarks] email << https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/560780/?__indieweb_impression=true
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/560780/?__indieweb_impression=true" to the "See Also" section of /email https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=47862&oldid=47491
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@drupal8modules New #alpha version released for #drupal8 #module indieweb (8.x-1.0-alpha7). More info: https://www.drupal.org/project/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/998644704530059264)
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sherab first time here. is this indieweb?
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eli_oat you bet!
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eli_oat welcome
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[Sherab] Hello indieweb! looking forward to learn about the independent web and how to retrieve my online identity and keep my data mine.
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KartikPrabhu welcome [Sherab]
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KartikPrabhu do you have your own site?
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skippy the Ohio LinuxFest 2018 CFP is open: https://ohiolinux.org/call-for-presentations/ -- would be nice to see some IndieWeb presentations!
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Loqi Call for Presentations The 2018 Ohio LinuxFest is looking for presentations on Friday and Saturday, October 12 and 13, 2018 at the Hyatt Regency Columbus. Please submit your talk proposals by the deadline of July 31, 2018 to make sure you’ll be con...
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sherab KartikPrabhu: thanks for asking - no I do not have my own web site. I am a mere interested individula trying to udnerstand what the web is about. Although I am an old person I am learning how to write website right now. I would love to use indieweb
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aaronpk skippy: sweet, I will try to submit something!
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skippy huzzah!
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@kartik_prabhu ↩️ @meyerweb @simonstl There is also fragmention proposal by @kevinmarks https://indieweb.org/fragmention (twitter.com/_/status/998666919808028674)
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tantek_ reads today's log has so many logs to read
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tantek_ for the rooms (to stay in) for indieweb discussion, did someone already mention -> #indieweb-meta ?
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jgmac1106 makes sense [tantek] not as many will knock on the door if everyone is standing on the porch talking a language they do not understand
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tantek jgmac1106: that's a great analogy
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wagle has anyone read and understood the new smugmug/flickr agreements? (my brain hates legalese) did you find any problems?
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tantek wagle: seems worth documenting to hopefully attract more opinions
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tantek what is SmugMug
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Loqi SmugMug is a privately held paid subscription photo hosting silo founded in 2002 that acquired Flickr from Oath in 2018 https://indieweb.org/SmugMug
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@sdepolo Using Twitter instead of posting to my own blog. #ThingsICantStopDoing I'm a #socialMedia addict. Step 1 is admitting this. #indieweb friends are trying to help. Help me 😱!!! Retweet if you, too, want to spend less time on social, but are having a hard time making the shift. (twitter.com/_/status/998704833543553025)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ I didn’t give up social. Just willing to have fun working on solutions from my website. I can #IndieWeb and EduTwitter at the same time and that’s a good a stress test as any. I did turn off all notifications (except personal email and text), never… https://jgregorymcverry.com/2719-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/998707990940274695)
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