#indieweb 2024-02-28

2024-02-28 UTC
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[Joe_Crawford] https://wordpress.com/tos/ "license" section relevant to this (news? rumor? strongly sourced leak?)
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starrwulfe capjamesg[d]: Well damn. Is it affecting self-hosted sites?
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[Joe_Crawford] no that's the .com. self hosted does not. If you flow your content through the JetPack plugin for syndication and republishing I can't tell. I don't use that aspect of JetPack - not logged into http://wordpress.com with my site's backend
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nsmsn Matt’s had a heck of a sabbatical.
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[snarfed] https://wordpress.com/blog/2024/02/27/more-control-over-the-content-you-share/
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starrwulfe Maybe indieweb news: https://starrwulfe.xyz/2024/02/open-source-initiative-migrates-to-wordpress-connects-to-fediverse/
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starrwulfe Also supports webmentions too
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gRegor This is very cool: https://anhvn.com/posts/2024/building-the-listening-room/
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[Al_Abut] wow
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[Al_Abut] I spent tonight adding a punk rock album to my blog post while they went about building out the musicverse. I love that feeling of equal measures of awe and envy
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outlokin hello
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capjamesg Hello!
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capjamesg Welcome!
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capjamesg Do you have a personal website?
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capjamesg https://versary.town/blog/pfp-switcher/ is a really neat idea!
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[Murray] that is cool!
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[dominik] Ooooh!
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[dominik] > i might not have been born when the web started, but i think it's spirit is self-expression, customization, and whimsy.
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[dominik] awww
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kimberlyhirsh I love when The Youths embrace the fun spirit of the web revival.
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kimberlyhirsh Ooh speaking of profile pictures mine is incredibly outdated.
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kimberlyhirsh Okay, let's see if it's better now.
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capjamesg https://indieweb.social/@Flipboard@flipboard.social/112010003909350404
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[Murray] Oh that's kinda useful. I've not used Flipboard in _years_ but I've been missing clear UK news sources on Fedi, so perhaps this will fill a gap. Thanks for sharing!
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capjamesg Has anyone ever done a "blog takeover" where you let others put their content in your RSS reader / on your home page?
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capjamesg The This Week in Tech podcast has sometimes done this where the host is away and he lets someone else step in as host and do their own show.
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[tantek] capjamesg, that will be a good test of whether such blogs allow for per-post authors or not
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capjamesg I think per-post authors is one way of doing it.
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capjamesg Another is creating an entry in your feed that points to someone's original post.
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[tantek] do you mean a repost?
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capjamesg In a way. But I'm not reposting it. I am inviting someone else to do it.
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capjamesg In that I could say "hey, Tantek, do you want to feature one of your posts in my feed?", to which you could respond with any post and I would put it on my site. So I'm not choosing, rather being the platform.
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[tantek] invited repost?
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capjamesg Yeah.
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[tantek] ask-first repost?
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capjamesg But the language isn't too important right now. I would like to do this but wondered if there were other examples in blogs.
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[tantek] that's probably a good policy when a "large account" is considering reposting something from a "small account" and thus expanding the "public" of that post beyond what the original author expected or intended when they wrote their post
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capjamesg Right.
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[tantek] I mean from a consent and /publics and even safety perspective
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capjamesg Consent is crucial.
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capjamesg The goal is introducing my audience to others' blogs who would appreciate it.
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[tantek] Except on the web, the ability to link to something without asking for prior permission is crucial
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[tantek] I think in this way, there is a big difference in the context / UX of posting a /bookmark and posting a /repost
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capjamesg Agreed re: linking, but when it's on your homepage and you're inviting someone, the context is different.
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[tantek] no that's my point it's the /repost aspect that's different, not the "link" vs "homepage"
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[tantek] I think a lot of folks still come to Masto or other AP servers/software with "silo mindset" or "single site blinders" where yes they acknowledge on sign-up that other servers exist but kind of dismiss it mostly as a plumbing thing, and then due to the way Masto keeps you in a site-specific look & feel even when viewing others posts, the "single site illusion" is strong, and so people sink back into that mindset
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[tantek] Especially so for folks that always view/use Mastodon through some native mobile client that makes everything look the same no matter what server they are viewing posts from.
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[tantek] So when something like the Masto<->Bluesky "bridge" is "proposed" they see and feel a visceral threat to that single site illusion and then react accordingly, even though they never were on a single-site system to begin with.
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[tantek] Maybe it's a case of a UX making users feel *too comfortable* to the point of living in denial of the heterogeneous system that they are actively participating in.
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[snarfed] I think that's right
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[snarfed] I tried to feel out more of that mental model and space in moderate people not code. not sure how much I succeeded, but hopefully it was a start
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[snarfed] the farthest I've seen people entrench that mindset is when they insist that the fediverse is ActivityPub specific, so federation is ok, but not with other networks
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[tantek] I think this discussion needs more accessible summaries of the situation before nuanced deeper discussions
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[snarfed] haven't heard a good rebuttal to the point that the fediverse is and has always been multi-protocol
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[snarfed] [tantek] maybe so!
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[tantek] Oh sure I've seen that "rational" insistence on AP-only, however I'm talking about the emotional perception that's being violated
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[snarfed] yeah true, that angle goes more rational than emotional
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[tantek] like I literally think most Mastodon users have bought into the UX illusion that they are (still) using just one site
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[tantek] I think this is the source of the emo freakout
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[tantek] which is why so many bans happened
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[tantek] and all the personal attacks / name-calling etc.
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aaronpk it's somehow simultaneously one site, but also you can follow people on other sites
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[snarfed] one interesting idea would be a tool that lets you enter your fediverse handle and shows your recent posts, replies, etc in surprisingly different fediverse sites and renderings
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[snarfed] eg PeerTube, Lemmy/kbin, WP blogs, etc
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Europe/London is starting soon! Join us! https://events.indieweb.org/aWOhRaPRevto
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aaronpk yay Loqi
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[snarfed] (ie links you to where they're already showing up, on the "native" fediverse, in ways that might surprise you)
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[tantek] [snarfed] maybe? I think most folks will stick with their local Masto UX and not travel outside their home (town|page)
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[snarfed] this wouldn't be an alternative client, more like a one-(or few-)time-use educational tool
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[snarfed] like ghostery or other browser extensions that show visualizations of how/where you've been tracked etc
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[marksuth] HWC Europe/London is starting in 5 mins if folk wish to join: https://events.indieweb.org/2024/02/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-aWOhRaPRevto
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aaronpk [snarfed]: i think it sounds fun, would certainly be educational, and like to ruffle up a lot of feathers 😅
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aaronpk likely*
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capjamesg [tantek] https://jamesg.blog/2024/02/28/beginners-mind-empathy/
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[tantek] 👀
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[tantek] capjamesg, missing word in "What you is easy to you" ?
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.prabash Hello everyone! I'm Prabash and am new here, currently do not have my own website but I have always loved personal sites and the blogging space, and came across IndieWeb from a few blogs I follow and am excited to get started.
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capjamesg Welcome to the community, _prabash[d] !
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capjamesg The IndieWeb wiki getting started page may be helpful as you explore different options for setting up a site.
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capjamesg What is getting started?
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Loqi 🎉 Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the IndieWeb community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page and other IndieWeb essentials https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
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capjamesg ^^
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capjamesg Sites like omg.lol and micro.blog are also great ways to get started! You can get a site set up in an hour and start publishing on the web!
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.prabash capjamesg[d]: Ooo good to know! Thanks, I’ll be reading all the wikis and information here lol. Seems like a great community
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[tantek] as said on the HWC: use your homepage to grow your digital garden!
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[tantek] (no need for separate pages to have a digital garden)
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immibis is this affiliated with https://indieweb.social/ ?
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[KevinMarks] In spirit, if not organisationally - some people here use indieweb.social and the site admin is often in here
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[KevinMarks] [timothy_chambe] is that fair?
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[tantek] what is indieweb.social
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Loqi indieweb.social is a Mastodon instance that has (semi?)open sign-ups so anyone (like beyond the community) might have an account there, and was started with the intent of adding and enabling IndieWeb standards as proof of how Mastodon could federate with sites in general, beyond other Mastodon sites https://indieweb.org/indieweb.social
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[tantek] immibis ^
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immibis ok, well i just reported a guy
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[tantek] [timothy_chambe] and the admins are fairly responsive so hopefully it's resolved quickly!
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immibis you are the admin
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[tantek] there is no one "admin". There's a bunch of folks that run different things for the IndieWeb community (the chats, Slacks, chat archives etc.), and there are a variety of IndieWeb related services (Bridgy, Indieweb.social, etc.) that have their own admins
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[tantek] immibis, for any particular service, you can ask "what is name-of-service" here in chat, and that should give you a page with info about who to contact
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immibis you are literally listed as the owner of indieweb.social on the indieweb.social about page.
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gRegor https://indieweb.social/@tchambers is the admin of that Mastodon instance
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capjamesg [tantek] This is for indieweb.social, not anything else.
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capjamesg I hope all gets resolved soon, immibis!
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immibis gRegor: you are telling me that tchambers (Tim Chambers) is not the same person as [timothy_chambe]?
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gRegor https://indieweb.org/indieweb.social is our wiki page about that instance. Tim is the one to contact, not [tantek].
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gRegor It read like you were saying tantek is the admin. Just clarifying.
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immibis well tantek appears to be a bridge bot
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aaronpk in any case, reporting a mastodon account on mastodon is the best way to handle that, not tracking down the server admin in IRC
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immibis oh, maybe I understood that wrong
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immibis [tantek] just wrote in a way that looked like a bridge bot... and has a hostname that also looks like one
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aaronpk [tantek] is joined here from Slack, like many others here
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gRegor what is discuss
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Loqi 💬 Join the #indieweb discussion via the web, Slack, IRC, or Discord clients now with additional channels for dev, wordpress, and meta specific chat! https://indieweb.org/discuss
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immibis slack doesn't seem especially indie - isn't that just discord but more corporate?
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aaronpk read the wiki page above for an answer to that
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gRegor The canonical chat logs are at https://chat.indieweb.org, multiple bridges let people join from other networks and chat together
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[tantek] immibis yes Slack and Discord are both "corporate", as aaronpk notes, see the /discuss page for more on those in particular. However in general using a "corporate" solution for ephemeral interaction is quite ok here. Anything persistent (e.g. the chat logs, definitions, wiki etc.) are all on http://indieweb.org. Similarly persistent content on your personal site, and no worries about using "corporate" things for ephemeral distribution and to
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[tantek] point people to your original content
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immibis this community seems dysfunctional, bye
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immibis well, i'll hang around only to see if the tim says anything
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immibis cause having a nazi hanging out on your instance for months isn't a good look
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gRegor indieweb.org doesn't run indieweb.social
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[tantek] immibis, ugh no that's no good regardless of instance 😞
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gRegor Not sure how to make that more clear
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[tantek] immibis FWIW the community here in IndieWeb chat is very much NOT the same as "people with accounts on indieweb.social", though there is some overlap
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[tantek] Indieweb chat/Slack/Discord != Indieweb.social Mastodon
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[tantek] perhaps that's worth an FAQ
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[tantek] immibis, take a look at our code of conduct for example
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[tantek] what is code of conduct
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Loqi 🌈 IndieWeb code of conduct tl;dr: Be respectful of other people, respectfully ask people to stop if you are bothered, and if you can't resolve an issue, contact staff. If you are being a problem, it will be apparent and you'll be asked to leave https://indieweb.org/Code-Of-Conduct
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immibis i mean i just said i don't care about this dysfunctional community, seems he's not around now anyway, so bye
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[tantek] immibis, "this community" that you are chatting in is https://chat.indieweb.org/ which is not the same "community" as https://indieweb.social/
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aaronpk They left already
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aaronpk IRC parts don't get sent to the Slack/Discord gateway
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[tantek] is that worth an FAQ?
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aaronpk probably
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aaronpk I think they do show up on the chat logs tho
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[jeremycherfas] That’s the second incident in a couple of days of someone bandying about the term Nazi. I fear it really has become devalued, just when we might actually need it.
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[tantek] [jeremycherfas] agreed, it's a term people leap to without understanding that they are exaggerating and thus minimizing the actual past harms that actual folks with that label did
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capjamesg [marksuth]++ for hosting HWC!
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Loqi [marksuth] has 14 karma in this channel over the last year (24 in all channels)
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[Joe_Crawford] [marksuth] ++
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Loqi [marksuth] has 15 karma in this channel over the last year (25 in all channels)
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[Joe_Crawford] capjamesg++
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Loqi capjamesg has 40 karma in this channel over the last year (164 in all channels)
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[Joe_Crawford] Thanks for hosting both of you! I found it real useful and nice to see folks faces!
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capjamesg Great to hear!
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capjamesg We have fun hosting 😄
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lazcorp [marksuth] ++
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Loqi [marksuth] has 16 karma in this channel over the last year (26 in all channels)
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lazcorp capjamesg++
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Loqi capjamesg has 41 karma in this channel over the last year (165 in all channels)
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lazcorp Yes, good to see some new faces, and I second the thanks to Mark & James for hosting
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capjamesg Thank you for joining, everyone!
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capjamesg lazcorp++ for the amazing sparklines!
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Loqi lazcorp has 7 karma over the last year
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lazcorp capjamesg - is the sparkline something that could be made into a web component, or is it not suitable?
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capjamesg It could be! But the benefits may be marginal vs. just using an SVG.
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capjamesg (Also a #dev discussion :D)
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to2ds Another fun HWC. Thank you for hosting [marksuth]++ & capjamesg
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to2ds capjamesg - Not sure if you found it in dev channel but I added a few notes on the text/plain thing. Don't ding me Loqi 🙏
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to2ds capjamesg++ for hosting.
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Loqi capjamesg has 42 karma in this channel over the last year (166 in all channels)
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capjamesg to2ds Thank you for sharing! I'll take a look again soon!
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lazcorp fixed some formatting on the wiki page from tonight's UK/Europe HWC
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capjamesg lazcorp++
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capjamesg Thank you!
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