#meta 2018-12-26

2018-12-26 UTC
jgmac1106, [relapse], [jgmac1106], ben_thatmustbeme and [tantek] joined the channel
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tantek.com edited /navigation (+117) "/* Twitter */ sequential nav support is gone" (view diff)
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robertvanbregt.nl edited /irc/people (-1) "Redirected page to [[chat-names]]" (view diff)
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robertvanbregt.nl deleted /2016/Introduction "Empty Content: content was: "#redirect[[2016/Introductions]]", and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]]" ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]])"
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robertvanbregt.nl deleted /duck_emoji_boat_emoji "Empty Content: content was: "#REDIRECT[[🦆⛵️]]", and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Loqi.me|Loqi.me]]" ([[User talk:Loqi.me|talk]])"
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[tantek] hey Robertvanbregt.nl - any particular reason you're deleting all these redirects?
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[tantek] you might be mistakenly deleting some. we have lots of redirects because someone linked to something somewhere (a post, a tweet etc.) and maybe had a slight typo etc. so they repair links
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[tantek] you can't just a redirect is useless just by looking for zero links to it
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[tantek] can't just *determine a
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Zegnat Their chat name is metbril. I've left a !tell.
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[tantek] at some point it's not reasonable (not very community-minded) to be doing massive wiki changes and not be on chat to discuss it
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[tantek] I'll try the main channel
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Zegnat Do we have a wiki page that describes what we use the wiki for?
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Zegnat Our use of event postings and redirects for Loqi are different enough from other wikis that we probably need to point I out to new contributors
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[tantek] the /wikify page is the closest accumulated knowledge of that
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[tantek] though frankly to jump in as a newcomer and start deleting a bunch of pages is not exactly the most friendly of gesture
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[tantek] that would be rude in any community
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[relapse] I found their contact page on the indicated URL and sent a message asking as well. See if anything comes of that.
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metbril For those of you who are wondering why I deleted pages.
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Loqi metbril: Zegnat left you a message 17 hours ago: any reason for those page deletions?
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metbril I intended to fix the broken redirects listed on the special pages and deleted most of the pages that were not linked to and were not linking to anything.
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metbril !tell Zegnat I intended to fix the broken redirects listed on the special pages and deleted most of the pages that were not linked to and were not linking to anything.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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metbril With the best intentions, that was...
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[jgmac1106] No worries... Always the rollback
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[jgmac1106] ... And always acceptable not to answer a !tell on Christmas
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metbril And re: the deleted 'domain' pages, those were no longer valid because of the deleted https://indieweb.org/domain_name_registrar
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Zegnat Yeah, those should probably have been redirected to just /domain
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Loqi Zegnat: metbril left you a message 55 minutes ago: I intended to fix the broken redirects listed on the special pages and deleted most of the pages that were not linked to and were not linking to anything.
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@rMdes_ ↩️ @FredBodarwe #indieweb est ton amis :) http://www.indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/1077886248893771776)
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danq.me edited /User:Danq.me (+3) (view diff)
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danq.me edited /comics (+262) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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danq.me edited /comics (+59) "/* Dan Q */" (view diff)
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danq.me edited /collection (+664) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ So I wrote up my struggles, code, and goals into a blog post and dumped it into #IndieWeb dev chat https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-12-25 and got https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-12-26 for help. Admittedly I got the site working without fully understanding but shows how important… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/26/so-i-wrote-up-my-struggles-code (twitter.com/_/status/1077933033800560640)
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@EatPodcast ↩️ I knew I'd forget some. So, there's @fallingtreeprod @kitchenbee @_captainscience @bartona104 @jkphi and, to round things off, @indieweb and all who sail in her. (twitter.com/_/status/1077951832448794625)
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[tantek] metbril, pretty sure most of the (internally) unlinked redirects were because they were linked to from outside the wiki. e.g. in typos in chat logs, tweets etc.
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[tantek] good: "fix the broken redirects"
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[tantek] "deleted most of the pages that were not linked to " <-- insufficient criteria for deleting pages, at least in the way we have used them, both for fixing up typos made elsewhere (on other sites) to go to the intended page rather than 404, and to help Loqi answer "what is" questions.
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[tantek] However I appreciate that's non-obvious (to traditional MediaWiki gardening), so we really should document that
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[tantek] !tell metbril did you find anything on the IndieWeb wiki about our use of the wiki, why create / not to create / delete articles etc.? Did you by chance come across indieweb.org/wikify and the pages it links to? I think we need to improve our docs here (to mention deletes in particular) and perhaps discovery of those docs too.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] Zegnat, also interested in your thoughts on ^^^
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[tantek] (and anyone else around who cares about these things 🙂 )
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petermolnar I'm sort of pro-delete when it comes to obsolete (as in it was temporary in the first place)/confusing; in case of broken external, we should try to point to archive.org version; I'm not certain about abandoned
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petermolnar abandoned as in eg. user profile pages that point to dead websites
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petermolnar delete pages that were not linked to is certainly not a good criteria for a wiki
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@grigs I’m finally prioritizing working on understanding and implementing IndieWeb stuff on my personal site as part of my plans to delete my Facebook account. (twitter.com/_/status/1078019423892459520)
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[tantek] grigs++
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Loqi grigs has 1 karma over the last year
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] I would not want to delete a user page even if their domain was gone just for history. I think we should add a policy, "thinking about deleting a page? Just ask."
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jacky ^
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@jackyalcine ↩️ This is exciting! I'm personally working on some stuff myself for my site https://indieweb.org/Koype. Hope to hear more about your venture soon; maybe over at https://chat.indieweb.org? (twitter.com/_/status/1078040701974138880)
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[tantek] ok let's add that as a policy and at least start collecting some of the specifics shared here as brainstorming and then people can asynchronously add their opinions
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[tantek] thanks [jgmac1106] jacky
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[tantek] !tell jacky how are you feeling about HWC SF tonight? I still haven't seen any other RSVPs and sadly I'm feeling a bit under the weather (on the couch at home now)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] !tell jacky I could still rally and make it happen even just for the two of us (would be great to see you!) but I wanted to see what you were feelin first - maybe we could do HWC Virtually using Mumble?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] checks jacky's website for the best way to contact him
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[tantek] (such a great URL)
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[metbril] [tantek] I did not read/find anything about deleting etc. Which doesn’t imply that it’s not there. I just didn’t find it. If this shouldn’t have happened just undo the deletes.
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Loqi [metbril]: [tantek] left you a message 4 hours, 33 minutes ago: did you find anything on the IndieWeb wiki about our use of the wiki, why create / not to create / delete articles etc.? Did you by chance come across indieweb.org/wikify and the pages it links to? I think we need to improve our docs here (to mention deletes in particular) and perhaps discovery of those docs too.
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[tantek] metbril, I think your observation is accurate. I'm not sure of anything about deleting except that pages without obvious relevance to the indieweb will likely be deleted.
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[metbril] I don’t understand however why we should keep pages with redirects that link to not existing pages. I get it if redirects are used to fix typos to actual pages.
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[tantek] I don't think we have a "guidelines for deleting pages" or "pages to delete" critera explicitly spelled out and clearly it would help if we wrote down what we've been practicing informally
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[tantek] redirects to non-existing pages are weird, EXCEPT when the non-existing page is a User: page
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[tantek] because User: pages are still useful even when "empty" / "uncreated" because MediaWiki will show "User Contributions" link in the sidebar etc.
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jacky [tantek]: I'm down to do it via Mumble; sorry to hear that you're not feeling well!
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Loqi jacky: [tantek] left you a message 31 minutes ago: how are you feeling about HWC SF tonight? I still haven't seen any other RSVPs and sadly I'm feeling a bit under the weather (on the couch at home now)
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Loqi jacky: [tantek] left you a message 30 minutes ago: I could still rally and make it happen even just for the two of us (would be great to see you!) but I wanted to see what you were feelin first - maybe we could do HWC Virtually using Mumble?
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jacky I was actually toying around with Ring, looking to replace it over Skype and Zoom
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[tantek] there he is!
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[tantek] haha I just sent you message via your contact form on your site (such good UX!)
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[tantek] jacky.wtf++
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Loqi jacky.wtf has 1 karma over the last year
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[relapse] BTW, thanks for running a very welcoming group here. Feel positive/ safe making contributions.
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jacky [tantek]: can't take the credit for it; it's a version of Catt's form here: https://cattsmall.com/coffee/
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jacky did some light addition of CSS to https://indieweb.org/Micropub
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jacky on Firefox; the <pre> tags overflowed off the page
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[tantek] ColinMorris thanks and welcome! (It's definitely an evolved result over many years, many mistakes too, but hopefully more learnings)
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jacky who is ColinMorris
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jacky wonders if this is on the Slack-side
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sknebel jacky: yes, relapse for us over here
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[tantek] so why is Loqi naming them differently?
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sknebel Not sure. I seem to remember slack changed how nicknames work at some point, maybe something to do with that?
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sknebel Hm, that was last year already, would be surprising if an issue with that only hit now https://api.slack.com/changelog/2017-09-the-one-about-usernames