#indieweb 2016-09-19

2016-09-19 UTC
KevinMarks and tantek joined the channel
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tantek WHOA aaronpk reply-context from Twitter!
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Loqi tantek: colintedford left you a message 2 hours, 15 minutes ago: When I suggested first-few-word poetry titles as a model for post name/excerpts a year+ ago (http://indieweb.org/irc/2015-01-08#t1420772078393)? Turns out that's called an "incipit". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incipit
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Loqi tantek: colintedford left you a message 2 hours, 11 minutes ago: ...and it has some very old prior art :)
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tantek No I made up that phrase AFAIK
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tantek what is a reply context
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Loqi A reply context is the display of what a reply post is in reply to, including linking to that original post with in-reply-to markup, showing some amount of that original post like author name, icon, summary / ellipsed content, and datetime published https://indieweb.org/reply-context
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tantek the concept came from Twitter AFAIK
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GWG Think someone has been reading the wiki?
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tantek ok aaronpk, snarfed re: my character counting code:
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tantek 1.I have no media / quoted tweet support in my code so that's unaffected
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tantek 2. "usernames will no longer count when they're at the beginning of replies, giving users additional room for discussion" sounds interesting and not too bad of a change
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tantek quote from http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/12/12891562/twitter-tweets-140-characters-expand-photos
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tantek actually this sounds more complicated: "@names that auto-populate at the start of a reply Tweet will not count towards the character limit (but new non-reply Tweets starting with a @mention will count, as will @mentions added explicitly by the user in the body of the Tweet)"
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tantek from: https://dev.twitter.com/overview/api/upcoming-changes-to-tweets
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tantek AND WTF: "new Tweets that begin with a username will no longer have to use the ”.@” convention in order to have those Tweets reach all of their followers." ?!?!?
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tantek so the character count now depends on whether you have an in-repy-to-tweet ID or not?
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aaronpk yup
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tantek this is kind of messed up (in terms of how to detect) "@names that auto-populate at the start of a reply Tweet "
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tantek like if you literally delete them then retype them then it doesn't act the same? or cut then paste?
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aaronpk it will take some experimenting but my assumption was that any usernames that are in the reply chain will not be counted if they appear at the beginning of the tweet
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KevinMarks Quoted tweet just means linking to a tweet at the end. So that would not count
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb!
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sknebel Good Morning Zegnat!
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Zegnat Is it me or are the timestamps on https://chat.indieweb.org/2016-09-19 an hour off? (Switch to CET time.)
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Zegnat Oh, hmm, something else must be going on. The realtime-logs show us as being 2 hours before actual time. (ping aaronpk)
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aaronpk That matches what Google says the local time CET is
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aaronpk ah yeah the realtime logs are stuck in UTC
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aaronpk i will have to localize them in JS, but the page is localized on the server side
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sknebel Zegnat: CET != CEST for the older entries
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aaronpk I think there's already an issue open for it
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Zegnat Or just get rid of timezones entirely.
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aaronpk ha
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sknebel IndieTime. aka whatever loqis clock thinks it is right now :P
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Zegnat CET doesn't seem to be CEST for current entries. When I visit chat.indieweb.org in a new private tab it shows my good morning as "06:37"
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aaronpk It is 6:37 in CET right now tho right?
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sknebel but we *are* in CEST right now
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sknebel CET would be 1 hour off
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sknebel which would be 6:37
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Zegnat switches to Europe/Amsterdam
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aaronpk Whats your timezone name that takes in to account DST?
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Zegnat aaronpk: I am just use to CET automatically becoming CEST
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sknebel aaronpk: does the voice-feature here in the channel require authenticating to nickserv?
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aaronpk no
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Zegnat Europe/Amsterdam takes DST into account for me. CET does not. Which arguably is correct, just wasn't what I expected.
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aaronpk Good night! See you all in CEST tomorrow!
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Loqi goodnight!
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sknebel good night!
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Zegnat Good night aaronpk!
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@diplix @sofakissen reclaim ist tot, aber das http://indieweb.org lebt. /@saschalobo (twitter.com/_/status/777769549085171712)
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@kevinmarks @SaraSoueidan @stevefaulkner @brucel @heydonworks see also https://indieweb.org/comments-presentation (twitter.com/_/status/777789156537708544)
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@kevinmarks @SaraSoueidan @stevefaulkner @brucel @heydonworks specifically https://indieweb.org/comments-presentation%23How_to_markup - using an <ol> would make sense there too (twitter.com/_/status/777789705823752193)
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@kevinmarks @SaraSoueidan @heydonworks @stevefaulkner indieweb assumes multiple sites by default, with twitter/medium threads as special cases (twitter.com/_/status/777792774271737857)
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cweiske .
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@tommorris @edent it's all done by Bridgy. the exact logic is magic. http://indieweb.org/Bridgy (twitter.com/_/status/777800596606816256)
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@pierreozoux @clochix #indieweb ftw :) https://indieweb.org/ (https://t.co/pPepVXw2Bl) (twitter.com/_/status/777823756387581952)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@clochix #indieweb ftw :) https://indieweb.org/" by Pierre Ozoux on 2016-09-19 https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2016/clochix-indieweb-ftw
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Loqi [indieweb] "From WordPress to Apple News, Instant Articles, and AMP" by Chris Coyier on 2016-09-19 http://mediatemple.net/blog/tips/wordpress-apple-news-instant-articles-amp/
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@krisshaffer Can APIs replace RSS? (With a few more technical details about the OER-friendly CMS, Peasy.) https://medium.com/@krisshaffer/can-apis-replace-rss-324f17bd2e26%23.c0br5mdxa #DoOO #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/777845029813555200)
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@pierreozoux @clochix @DavidBruant L'indieweb c'est: - diapsora c'est bien gentil mais tant qu'il n'y aura pas x convaincus… https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2016/clochix-davidbruant-lindieweb-cest---diapsora-cest-bien-gentil-mais (twitter.com/_/status/777852242175135744)
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@homebrewbrum Run your own website? Interested in the #indieweb? Live near Brum? Join us on Oct 5th for our first meetup https://homebrewbrum.co.uk (twitter.com/_/status/777865674383364096)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/777760828544131072
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@edenthecat Hello, welcome to Twitter Dot Com: where people try to become brands and brands try to become people. Enjoy your stay. (twitter.com/_/status/777760828544131072)
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tantek !tell aaronpk did you figure out the origins of "reply-context" ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek e.g. BarnabyWalters referred to them on 2016-09-09 https://chat.indieweb.org/2013-05-09 many days before /reply-context was created
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tantek me in April before that: https://chat.indieweb.org/2013-04-30#t1367282352000000
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tantek oops hyperlinking error
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tantek "reply context" reference on https://chat.indieweb.org/2013-04-29
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tantek however the link on "17:39" links to 2013-04-30! (the day after!)
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tantek !tell aaronpk I'm seeing chat log of chat.indieweb.org/2013-04-29 link its permalinks to the day after: 2013-04-30! Possibly due to the timezone I'm? However I havent' changed the timezone in my settings on my Mac!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek looks like I asked a question about it here: https://chat.indieweb.org/2013-04-22#t1366656581000000
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tantek and the day before: https://chat.indieweb.org/2013-04-21#t1366575495000000
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tantek I'll keep looking
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tantek use of "reply context" phrase two days before that: https://chat.indieweb.org/2013-04-19#t1366395184000000
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KevinMarks Was this the original reply context tool? http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/twitview
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petermolnar question: the mf2py library seem to strip a lot of HTML from the h-entry content... am I doing something wrong with that?
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Zegnat !tell tantek Hyperlinks not working on chat.indieweb.org might be because of https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/issues/9
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat petermolnar: well… unless it is e-content you can strip HTML tags, I think? I seem to vaguely recall the e-* prefix as something saying “this value incorporates HTML”
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petermolnar hm
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petermolnar let me check the available things in the parsed entry
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snarfed Zegnat: petermolnar: content.value and content.html, e.g. http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Example
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML/H...
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petermolnar right... html... snarfed, thank you
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voxpelli petermolnar: one should really anticipate all values to have their plain text value as either the top level value or as a .value key :)
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@jgmac1106 @krisshaffer What happens to speed if you do all the scripts in-browser via JavaScript. Slow to crawl? Just keep light pages? #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/777896804100763649)
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KevinMarks What's the page, Petermolnar?
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@krisshaffer @jgmac1106 In Peasy or in a blog reader? #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/777903445928009728)
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@jgmac1106 @krisshaffer hitting my wall in knowledge and skill. Running all the javascript browser side...just seems like could be slow #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/777903741169262592)
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KevinMarks1 https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/777178779391299586
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@iamdevloper The Social Network in 2016 would be very different. Just two hours of Mark Zuckerberg being rate limited by the Graph API. (twitter.com/_/status/777178779391299586)
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aaronpk lol
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 58 minutes ago: did you figure out the origins of "reply-context" ?
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 48 minutes ago: I'm seeing chat log of chat.indieweb.org/2013-04-29 link its permalinks to the day after: 2013-04-30! Possibly due to the timezone I'm? However I havent' changed the timezone in my settings on my Mac!
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tantek (just a bit more research since then in the logs)
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Loqi tantek: Zegnat left you a message 1 hour, 21 minutes ago: Hyperlinks not working on chat.indieweb.org might be because of https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/issues/9
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tantek and lol indeed
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aaronpk I saw, I think that is the same bug
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aaronpk timezones are hard
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aaronpk hmm my startssl 2 year validation expires tomorrow, and I don't really want to give them more money
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aaronpk guess I will stop using wildcard certs
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KevinMarks1 aaronsw called his bookmarklet 'twitter context' http://twitter.theinfo.org/
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KevinMarks1 so that's Jan 2011
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prtksxna aaronpk: Will you be reviewing quill PRs anytime soon?
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aaronpk prtksxna: right now my priority is building a test suite for Micropub, and I'm starting with tests for servers. After that I'll do the tests for clients, and seeing that Quill is meant to be a reference client I'll be testing my tests with it, so that's when I'll get to the PRs
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aaronpk Hopefully that helps :-)
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aaronpk i should document my queue somewhere public
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Loqi it is probable
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@kevinmarks @krisshaffer @jgmac1106 so they all have to be running the same code. That's the monoculture antipattern https://indieweb.org/monoculture (twitter.com/_/status/777909799421829120)
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KevinMarks1 today in "just" https://twitter.com/krisshaffer/status/777909276459368449
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@krisshaffer @jgmac1106 No, but you just need a subdomain (w/HTTPS) and then unzip the file with the code to test: https://peasy.pushpullfork.com/Install (twitter.com/_/status/777909276459368449)
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@kevinmarks @krisshaffer @jgmac1106 cf https://github.com/indieweb/blank-gh-site which took 15 minutes from nothing to website #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/777910874803548161)
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miklb I'll be honest, pushing that as a "website" is a bit disingenuous IMHO
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@kevinmarks @krisshaffer @jgmac1106 I want your students' projects to last, not end up here: https://indieweb.org/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/777913697918328832)
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cweiske snarfed, I have no idea why https://circleci.com/gh/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/45 fails. works fine here @home
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snarfed cweiske: no worries, thanks for the heads up! i'll look soon
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snarfed you're caught up to master?
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snarfed and you're using the same version of php-mf2 as circle?
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snarfed those are my first two guesses. can look more later
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cweiske I don't have php-mf2 installed, unless the bin/install* did this
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cweiske and yes, i'm at wp-mp master
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snarfed oh right, it doesn't use php-mf2
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snarfed ok
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@kevinmarks @krisshaffer @jgmac1106 have a look at the http://indieweb.org homepage for principles and how we got here - documenting our mistakes (twitter.com/_/status/777915954814529541)
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@jgmac1106 @kevinmarks @krisshaffer been hacking at my wordpress theme for few days now trying to get #indieweb plug-ins functioning. will keep trying (twitter.com/_/status/777916595159064576)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on As of 9/13/16 I’m beginning to own all of my reading data into & from @GoodReads ? #IndieWeb by Rick Mendes" by Rick Mendes on 2016-09-18 http://boffosocko.com/2016/09/17/as-of-91316-im-beginning-to-own-all-of-my-reading-data-into-from-goodreads-%f0%9f%93%9a-indieweb/#comment-32130
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KevinMarks1 it's not disingenuous, just following trends. I feel for the chap
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miklb KevinMarks1 what trend?
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KevinMarks1 the 'everything should be js' trend
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miklb Obviously I didn't see the whole conversation, I just find saying only 15 minutes and calling a bare html page a website misleading
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@RikMende Launching soon: Homebrew Website Club #Brussels - http://hwc.brussels/ #indieweb with @ncollig_net & friends (twitter.com/_/status/777925418666037248)
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KartikPrabhu since when did javascript and writing content in JSON become "super simple" ?
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KartikPrabhu context: https://twitter.com/krisshaffer/status/777907776311980033
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@krisshaffer @jgmac1106 @kevinmarks Because plain-old HTML won't do what I want it to do, which is make the site super-simple for users to clone/remix. (twitter.com/_/status/777907776311980033)
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KartikPrabhu miklb: 15 minutes for a bare html website is pretty good
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miklb KartikPrabhu I guess my thinking is, if you are comfortable enough writing HTML to hand-roll a website, you can get a site up pretty quick. If you aren't, then what good does a bare HTML page do for you?
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miklb get a site up pretty quick in a variety of places.
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KartikPrabhu well if you are comfortable enough writing javascript and JSON then you can get a site up pretty quick. If you aren't then waht good does javascript+Json do for you?
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KartikPrabhu you can dimiss anything by starting with "if you are comfortable enough..."
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks' point was that it is much easier and "super simple" to set up HTML than some javascript+JSON do-hickie
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miklb gives up
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sknebel Could it be that you two are mixing up two totally separate discussions?
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KevinMarks1 the 15 minutes was empirical BTW
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Zegnat You do know how the techstack works though, KevinMarks1. I definitely needed more than 15 minutes to walk Emma through HTML at IWC Düsseldorf
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: I bet walking through JS+JSON will take much longer
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KevinMarks1 My son did it the other night. https://github.com/chrisamarks/chrisamarks.github.io/commits/master
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KevinMarks1 with me giving hints over messenger
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KevinMarks1 10 minutes to clone, rename, turn on gh pages
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KevinMarks1 5 minutes to edit the html in github directly to show his name and links
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KevinMarks1 (I did the DNS pointing part, but he had a website on GH)
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KevinMarks1 if it's ease of setup you want, there is blogger/tumblr/wordpress but wiht implied structure
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KevinMarks1 if you're exlpaining that teh web is text you can edit, I think this is clearer
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@jgmac1106 What is your fav html cheat sheet for new learners? #teachtheweb #edtechchat #indieweb #connectedlearning (twitter.com/_/status/777939089194614784)
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miklb my argument is there is a lot more under the hood with gh pages to render that html, and you could have a more robust "website" in about the same amount of time there. I'm not advocating using my jekyll project, but there are plenty of jekyll sites you could do the same steps on GitHub and have something more that is still pretty much just HTML and markdown
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Zegnat Has anyone used Tumblr for IndieWeb? I think I could maybe get some friends to go for that.
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KartikPrabhu what is tumblr?
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Loqi Tumblr is a popular content hosting silo, especially for found images & video, that explicitly supports multiple types of posts, and through free domain mapping, a content hosting service as well https://indieweb.org/Tumblr
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KevinMarks1 https://twittercommunity.com/t/new-attachment-url-option-is-now-live-on-the-tweet-endpoints/74270
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KevinMarks1 https://silo.pub/ has s tumblr section
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KevinMarks1 hm, though it isn't telling me my url
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KevinMarks1 ah right, because it just uses the tumblr url. That could be clearer.
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Zegnat silo.pub would b for publishing too tumblr right? I am thinking of people who would use their tumblr as their primary site. I know loads of those in my age group
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KevinMarks1 right, we'd need to mf2 markup the theme as well, which is a separate effort
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gRegorLove There's a mf2 theme on the wiki from IWC 2014 Portland
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sknebel and wasn't there a webmention-to-disqus-comments thing?
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gRegorLove What is disqus?
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Loqi Disqus is a comments hosting silo https://indieweb.org/Disqus
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gRegorLove I'm not aware of that
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gRegorLove Ah, I guess Bridgy does it
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gRegorLove https://brid.gy/about#disqus
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Loqi [indieweb] "From WordPress to Apple News, Instant Articles, and AMP" by Chris Coyier on 2016-09-19 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FairyVisions/~3/B5FcVS8U-cU/
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tantek good evening #Indieweb
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aaronpk good evening!
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KevinMarks_ Afternoon
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KevinMarks trying to illustrate ACAG contast ratios, I realize the gamma of my 2 screens don't match at all https://kevinmarks.github.io/colourandcontrast.html
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KevinMarks uh oh, didn't invite people to homebrew.
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KevinMarks Tanek, if you're still up can you add people?
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KevinMarks (on fb)
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KevinMarks https://www.facebook.com/events/160416234402204/
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[schmarty] good evening, #indieweb!
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[schmarty] I'm spinning up a HWC Baltimore starting this Wednesday.
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[schmarty] I've created an h-event post on my own site, FB POSSE copy, and added the location and RSVP info to the 2016-91-21 HWC page on the wiki.
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[schmarty] I've also added Baltimore to the "Getting Started or Need Restarting" subsection of the Meetings section on the HWC wiki page.